Guest stnami Posted December 9, 2006 Share #121 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Erl they are presenting images taken from the M8 in a public arena, they are not asking for these images to be ignored!!! Just because it is fun doesn't make it beyond scruitiny and I am sure they are quite aware of ithat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 9, 2006 Posted December 9, 2006 Hi Guest stnami, Take a look here Yosemite M8 trip. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
carstenw Posted December 9, 2006 Share #122  Posted December 9, 2006 Here is the power of a Leica M and a Noctilux. This was shot this morning prior to the sun rising. The exposure was 1/15th, f1.0, 1250iso. Looks how the Noctilux even brings in detail in the forest behind Guy.  Jack is having a bit of problem with balance on the ice and frost.   Hehe, it looks like the B+W 486 UV-IR filter adds textured hair  I would take the Arizonan's comments about "really cold" with a grain of salt until we get confirmation on that from the Canadian  The frost is gorgeous though. Did anyone do some closeups of the rocks with the weeds on them?  Guy, have you run the ColorSync utility on your laptop? It ought to get you real close, colour-wise.  I don't know if I am imagining things here, but Rob's tunnel view shots looks like it has much better contrast than Jack's. If that is really true, maybe Jack will buy his M8 back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted December 9, 2006 Share #123 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Who is the guy next to Jack, holding the prints? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted December 9, 2006 Share #124  Posted December 9, 2006 Hehe, it looks like the B+W 486 UV-IR filter adds textured hair  i dont know about textured hair looks like a hat with ears or a rug : D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted December 9, 2006 Share #125  Posted December 9, 2006 Is the complextion any better on this shot? We figured Jack was a little pale, so we make him drink Martinis until his complextion looks better. In regards to the skin tones, all of have cold and wind burns from shooting all day. In the few shots people complained, if you look at the hands, the skin tone isn't that bad. They also look like what I shot, but sometimes real colours are not pleasing. In the case of this one, Jacks hands are under the lights and overexposed.   To me this has a magenta cast. I would be interested to see what you can do when you get back to real computers. Not only Jack looks a bit reddish, which might be the martinis, but the whole table area around Guy is also magenta.  I have several pictures like this among the 113 I took before sending my camera away, and I was finding it hard to correct it nicely in Lightroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 9, 2006 Share #126 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Erl they are presenting images taken from the M8 in a public arena, they are not asking for these images to be ignored!!! Just because it is fun doesn't make it beyond scruitiny and I am sure they are quite aware of ithat Sure thing Imants, but they MUST be viewed in context, and that is not what appears to be the case. I will warrant that better colour will be achieved on their desktops, but the real fact, at least for the indoor pics, is the incredible mixture of light sources that everyone seems to be ignoring. Â The last posted pic, that carsten is commenting on, has horrible mixed light. There is no way a 'correct' balance will ever be achieved in such circumstance, depite the camera employed. There is a crossover of green and magenta + a powerful blue backlight from the window. An ugly combination of light sources I would suggest, unless one relaxes normal personal tolerances. Anything but examples by which to judge gear by. Â Â Cheers, Erl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted December 9, 2006 Share #127 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree with you about those posts on images with major shifts in light sources,there is no getting around that. The rest is free game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted December 9, 2006 Share #128 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Hey guys, good to put faces to names after all these years. Â Have fun, and try to ignore the internet Heckle and Jeckles. As Doug Herr can tell you, Magpies are not native to the environs you are now enjoying : -) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 9, 2006 Share #129 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Imants, I think a corollary to those mixed lighting images is that they are going to become more common as a result of more gear being 'better' able to shoot in such conditions. Eventualy, I would suggest, that such mixtures of lighting will become more and more acceptable, at least in some circles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted December 9, 2006 Share #130 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Erl, temper, temper!.... - C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidigital Posted December 9, 2006 Share #131 Â Posted December 9, 2006 The true test of the group's "photographic eye" will come with the shots from the morning after one too many martinis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted December 9, 2006 Share #132 Â Posted December 9, 2006 The true test of the group's "photographic eye" will come with the shots from the morning after one too many martinis. Â Or during the martini consumption marathon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 9, 2006 Share #133  Posted December 9, 2006 Sure thing Imants, but they MUST be viewed in context, and that is not what appears to be the case. I will warrant that better colour will be achieved on their desktops, but the real fact, at least for the indoor pics, is the incredible mixture of light sources that everyone seems to be ignoring. The last posted pic, that carsten is commenting on, has horrible mixed light. There is no way a 'correct' balance will ever be achieved in such circumstance, depite the camera employed. There is a crossover of green and magenta + a powerful blue backlight from the window. An ugly combination of light sources I would suggest, unless one relaxes normal personal tolerances. Anything but examples by which to judge gear by.   Cheers, Erl   Also remember this is the first time Robert has processed or even held the M8 plus his laptop is much worse than mine My Macbook Pro is actually calibrated. The indoor shot of Jack is probably the worst case scene you may ever come across. Out side will Always be blue when balancing for Tungsten inside even film or any digital camera, plus the light hitting Jack is flouresent. So balancing for that will than throw everything else off. Frankly i pull out the Profotos when you run into this stuff or accept the results. This will never be a perfect balance here with any camera. Lighting has varibles that one must decide who is primary and what is seccondary light and what to balance for. Does anyone remember shooting slide film in this case. First thing half of us would do is put a 40 magenta filter on to balance for the flouresent , now just think about what it would do to the tungsten and than the daylight. Case closed. I admit i see Jack a touch on the red side but I don't anyone here is really trying to get perfect color. Thanks Erl , yes we are here to have fun and show folks that it works and it can provide beautiful images. My case for this camera to reside in my bag grows stronger every time I shoot it. So for me i am sold , hook , line and sinker. It is what i wanted a small , lightweight high end digital camera that can do much more than it was designed for. That to me sounds like a winning combo.  There is no prefect digital camera that thinks for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted December 9, 2006 Share #134 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Guys, Â thanks very much for this thread - it's the most enjoyable M8 related one yet. Â Keep on having fun! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted December 9, 2006 Share #135 Â Posted December 9, 2006 It's raining , so we may hit some wineries and whatever looks like something fun to shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted December 9, 2006 Share #136 Â Posted December 9, 2006 It's raining , so we may hit some wineries and whatever ... Â Some great shots, and it looks like you are having a great time, but this thread really does document Leica's new demographic -- the "shaken, not stirred" crowd. It should certainly offer more of a future to Leica Camera AG than Japanese collectors of Titanium M7's. But how will the M8 reach the hands of edgier sorts -- student discounts? Â scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Flesher Posted December 9, 2006 Share #137  Posted December 9, 2006 I don't know if I am imagining things here, but Rob's tunnel view shots looks like it has much better contrast than Jack's. If that is really true, maybe Jack will buy his M8 back  Two important points on that image: One, Robert was using his DMR and NOT his M8; two, he also used a polarizer AND a split neutral grad, both of which will enhance apparent contrast  Cheers,  Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack_Flesher Posted December 9, 2006 Share #138  Posted December 9, 2006 To me this has a magenta cast. I would be interested to see what you can do when you get back to real computers. Not only Jack looks a bit reddish, which might be the martinis, but the whole table area around Guy is also magenta. I have several pictures like this among the 113 I took before sending my camera away, and I was finding it hard to correct it nicely in Lightroom.  I agree Carsten, even after Robert re-worked the original and desaturated the red -- in his second rendition, the pimento in my martini olive looks a tad anemic!  While I agree that the mixed lighting is impossible to correct for, I do think the IR issue of the M8 is going to continue to give skin rendering problems. What I see is that under certain conditions, the slight IR bleed tends to slice through skin and show a bit of what's underneath, hence the red and blotchiness -- and I can assure you even after a couple martinis, my face is not that blotchy! I suspect this can be dealt with effectively with the right combination of IR-cut filter -- 700 nm absobrption type -- and a profile built specifically for it.  Cheers,  Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted December 9, 2006 Share #139  Posted December 9, 2006 {snipped}And I think you are being a bit too modest about the quality you can pull from your apple screen or from your and your martini mates in the field skills -- image processing included But you know as well as anyone that the questions people are asking are really not about rebalancing white balance but about something quite different that can't be solved with a WB shift. So not as sure as you that a JR version 3.0 of C1 or Leica version 3 profile will solve skin tone and other color issues that are showing up in your images -- however enjoyable to see. {Snipped}.  Steven--  Skin tones, though, are NOT one of this particular camera's flaws. I don't want to get into this much more on this thread--which has me thinking stuff like--  "holy heck I want the DNG of Guy's sepia shots because I know there's 6 stops of printing latitude for multiple, real "zone system" work here and that's the first time I even think that about a digital shot without film (the subject matter helps ) "  and  "even in these silly sRGB JPEGs the smoothness of tone from the M8 is amazing"  But really now, Apple notwithstanding, portable LCDs can't even set a WP or BP very successfully. You talk to Gretag or XRite guys about this and they say stuff like... hmmm "turn it up full brightness and guess."  So I don't think Guy is being modest at all. I think the colour profile of the M8 (or the DMR, come to that) is so far outside sRGB / LCD monitor gamut that it's actually harder to proof on the portable.  As for the profiles... and probably not from me... all I can say is "wait and see." The IR ones really are flawed right now, especially with the original M8 profile.  There is nothing in the colour reponse of the camera that I've seen to date that won't be fixed with a good profile. That's why I started tweaking; the difference, to me, is amazing.  Maybe just to put a quick stake in this, here is the original post (which, by the way, looks less magenta in PS than it does in Internet Explorer...):  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   Now, here is the simulated effect of a proper profile. Since I don't have the RAW files, this is an automated channel mixer operation from PS that I use for--wait for it--the 5d and the 1ds2--where there's often talk of "Canon sunburn"--probably due to IR response as well.  NO tweaking here--just a "profile" switch (and actually, not as good as a profile switch, since we're not working on RAW data anymore):    BTW--Guy--28 degrees F isn't "cold" but you're still brave to shoot with the vest!  I'm kidding as a Canadian here Less than 0 degrees C is certainly cold enough--especially with wind--for someone like me--a northern European mutt Canuck--to get very red in the face (especially with a touch of rosacea). Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   Now, here is the simulated effect of a proper profile. Since I don't have the RAW files, this is an automated channel mixer operation from PS that I use for--wait for it--the 5d and the 1ds2--where there's often talk of "Canon sunburn"--probably due to IR response as well.  NO tweaking here--just a "profile" switch (and actually, not as good as a profile switch, since we're not working on RAW data anymore):    BTW--Guy--28 degrees F isn't "cold" but you're still brave to shoot with the vest!  I'm kidding as a Canadian here Less than 0 degrees C is certainly cold enough--especially with wind--for someone like me--a northern European mutt Canuck--to get very red in the face (especially with a touch of rosacea). ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/10895-yosemite-m8-trip/?do=findComment&comment=114639'>More sharing options...
Jack_Flesher Posted December 9, 2006 Share #140 Â Posted December 9, 2006 Here is a shot of "the gang" eating Guy's famous steak. Mike used his 5D with a 24mm lens at f2.8 focused on candle, ISO 1600. Lighting is a single 150 watt tungsten bulb above the table, candles on the table and fluorescent kitchen lights directly behind the camera which obviously will impart more color effect on the foreground subjects. Â If you look closely, you can see the cheese filled peppers stuffed inside the sliced flank steak. Wines were a Chateaux Neuf, an ancient vine Mouvard and a local Zin -- all were excellent pairings with the meal, as was the company. Â Faces clockwise from lower left: Guy Mancuso, Mark Kay, Jack Flesher, Robert Stevens, Mike Hatam: Â Â Cheers, Â Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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