Is the time ripe to begin afresh?

[hanuman]

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I have no idea where this journey will lead me, but I'm ready for it ...

 

It wasn't until recently, when I stumbled across an article about the Leica M8, which finally guided me to this place of passion. With all the noise about the M8, I initially started reading through the posts in the digital forums only. But the more I read about the M8, the more curious I got about the highly praised M-Concept as such and I went on to read the film forums as well ...

 

Having started my photographic journey only a couple of years ago my little experience is confined to a digital compact and Nikon DSLR. I shoot mainly travel and recently started to experiment with black and white. Unlike many of you seasoned photographers I have neither shot film before, nor have I had any experience with wet darkrooms or analogue printing techniques.

 

Following my wish to continue this journey "upstream" to the roots of photography, I am ready to purchase a film M mainly for B&W. I have narrowed down my choices to either an M7 or an MP.

 

Assuming that I'll (most probably) purchase only one film M and add a digital M at a later stage, my heart tends towards the MP. From what I could make out, the major difference is the shutter with the M7's electrical one, offering an additional feature of aperture priority as well as a exposure compensation dial on the back. Since I currently use aperture priority on my DSLR 90% of the time, I thought that an M7 would be easier to switch over for me ... but then again, classic simplicity is MP.

 

As for the workflow I am thinking of having the wet darkroom work done and scanned by a good lab. If at all my interest goes as far as doing the darkroom work myself I am still able to add this step lateron.

 

I'd be curious in your opinions and experience as to which M you'd recommend and whether you think the move to film w/o darkromm knowledge is advisable in a time where everyone else seems to come the other direction ...

[fonziewonzie]

interesting seeing lots of digital people coming to film these days. as you, i have been doing digital for many years, but i was becoming increasingly tired of carrying a computer chip with me the whole time i wanted to do photography.

 

i work in digital lighting for a living, so the digital workflow is intuitive and easy. the thing is, it's not organic. i already spend so many hours in front of the computer every single day, that i found myself becoming bored of photography, my biggest passion, just because i did not want to have to go through digital files on my computer after a shoot.

 

so i went the opposite way. i bought all the things i need to start processing my own negatives at home. and today just finished closing all the light leaks in the bathroom. i bought a black MP as i really wanted the most manual experience possible. i am in love with it already. it's been fun noticing the stupid mistakes i do sometimes still as my brain is still geared towards SLRs... things like shooting with the lid on the lens and not noticing.

 

i was amazed how intuitive it was for me to load the film into the camera. i haven't yet had any issues with it.

 

now the next fun step will be re-learning the whole processing of the film. and trying different BW films, and developers, and all that.

 

it's exciting. it's fresh. and i can't stop carrying the mp all over the place now.

.: a

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[fotohuis]

>>Since I currently use aperture priority on my DSLR 90% of the time, I thought that an M7 would be easier to switch over for me <<

 

In fact you give yourself already an answer.

M7, all possibilities of the MP/M6 + something extra which can be very convenient.

 

Disadvantage: Only 2 mechanical times left so a spare set of batteries is not a bad idea.

 

Best regards,

 

Robert

 

Tip: Testreports

Now you can see how good B&W film in fact is. Other suggestions: Efke 25, Rollei PAN 25, Rollei Ortho 25. With the right combinations you will be amazed what is possible.

http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Development_Rollei%20films.pdf

another pretty good combination with (Moersch) Tanol (a kind of modified PMK):

http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Tanol_PAN25.pdf

[rob_x2004]

I find you have to think a bit more with an MP, and so you become more aware of what is going. Often this results in better shots, and sometimes shots that you mean to get rather than what you are dealt. M7 might give you someones idea of perfect exposure, but perfect exposure is not always the right thing for the frame you are shooting. I often find you need to sacrifice exposure for shutter speed, unless you have an M8 and can dial in equivalent million ISO on demand. I would ask someone about the shutter release on the M7, struth, it might be similar to the R9. Dunno.

[erl]

Your decision about M7 or MP is the smallest decision. Much bigger, since you express an interest in B/W, is to do it yourself, or shop itout. Fr4ankly, shoppin g it out these days is doomed to disappointment. Doing it yuourself sounds like a big step but in fact is a smaller 'gamble' than the alternative.

 

Good darkroom gear is cheap today and learning is EASY and REWARDING. Take control, do it your self and love it! Yes, you will have syuff-ups, but not nearly as bad as thre labs today.

 

Go M7 and 'roll yer own'.

 

Cheers,

Erl

[cbretteville]

Karim,

Considder an M6 or M6TTL. They can be had second hand for a very reasonable price and works for most intents and ourposes the same way as the MP. The M6TTL has a little more electronics as it does TTL flash, the M6 and MP are very similar im most repects. Both the M6s are 100% mechanical cameras. They differ in the sencitivity of the internal meter (MP is a little more sencitive - as is the M6TTL) and the view finder is a little brighter on later production runs of the MP.

 

Getting a second hand M6 in good shape will allow you to spend more on glass.

 

- Carl

[abrewer]

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...my heart tends towards the MP. From what I could make out, the major difference is the shutter with the M7's electrical one, offering an additional feature of aperture priority as well as a exposure compensation dial on the back. Since I currently use aperture priority on my DSLR 90% of the time, I thought that an M7 would be easier to switch over for me ... but then again, classic simplicity is MP...

 

Heart says MP, head says MP...not much left to settle I'd wager!

 

 

 

Karim, my challenge to you is to follow your head and heart: get the MP and learn exposure, let the camera force you to a slower pace and learn composition in the viewfinder. Do these things and you will find an experience so much more rewarding than point & shoot that you could not have imagined.

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[Rolo]

Make no mistake, they are both very fine cameras and either will be an absolute delight to own and use.

 

I own an M3 and an MP, but would more easily recommend the M7 to a newcomer. The metering system is excellent and takes one more chore out of shooting. With a little practice you'll master the system and become very conversant with it.

 

The MP is 'mechanical perfection' and feels really nice to use, but I think the automation of the M7 gives it the edge. Both will last a life time.

 

Your style and normal lighting conditions of your shooting should influence your decision.

[wilfredo]

You would be happy with both for different reasons. I had an MP which was a jewel, but missed AP shooting and the ease of making time exposures, so I sold it and replaced it with the M7. I'm very happy with the convenience of the M7, I can work faster with it, especially on the street, but it does not have the same charm as the MP. So if you want charm, go with the MP. If you want something really practical and more modern in the M format, go with the M7. Some people have both. Be careful, Leica can turn into an obsession. In my case Leica has also become the object of my photography. See attached pictures. © Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera

 

Cheers,

WIlfredo+

Benitez-Rivera Photography

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[frc]

The MP will be a learning experience and you must be willing to take the time to fully discover and appreciate the benefits of theis camera.

I have no hands-on user knowledge of the M7 bot I also daubted between the two cams. My choice was not a rational one, just thought the MP felt better.

Only two years ago my first DSLR entered my photographic life and I must admit that the A-setting on it is very convenient.

The style of shooting and the handling of SLR vs. RF is so uncomparable I do not ever have the wish to have any automation on the M.

But this is a personal feeling towards the subject. The M7 offers it and it can always be used fully manual. ( only don't forget the spare battery )

[John Maio]

I love my M7. After receiving one of the first M8's, I returned it for a refund. It will be awhile before I venture into those waters again. In the meantime, I took delivery on a Digilux-3 for just fun shooting. Any commercial stuff I do is on larger Nikon and Canon DSLR's.

 

One of the other things you'll want to consider is a decent film scanner. As was mentioned earlier, you can develop your film at home, but it seems that the world is going hybrid. By that I mean that for your real winning photos, most people are getting them scanned and then printed. I don't know if there is any definitive conclusion on the IQ of optical vs digitally made prints (whether inkjet or photograpically processed), but I've seen some really great stuff using the digital output method.

 

I use a Nikon SuperCoolscan 5000 ED and have made decent sized prints from it, but I suppose that I'd send the film off to be scanned on a top grade Imacon or equivalent if I really wanted to go all out.

 

But for most purposes, the Nikon works fine - especially if all you intend to do is make jpegs or prints up to, say, 13 X 19 inches. You can search the film forum for lots of recommendations on scanners.

[wbesz]

Welcome Karim.

 

"I have narrowed down my choices to either an M7 or an MP."

 

My choice is to go with the M7.

 

This has the added feature of AE, which you may find most useful for situations that require capturing that special moment,

and you still have the facility for using manual when needed.

 

(I have both MP and M7, but it seems that the M7 gets most use, ..but I can't part with my MP! )

[Never Satisfied]

Hi Karim, I'm new to the forum. My suggestion to you would be the MP. I entered the world of Leica with a battered M3 and a light meter after shooting for years in 'A 'mode with my SLR. After I processed my first roll of film I came to realise how much I'd been taking Automation for granted. I now have 5 Leica bodies, all manual and a light meter; I would recomend the more manual approach, go with the MP. Cheers Andrew.

[earleygallery]

If I had the money to spend on a new Leica body I would be very tempted by the MP. I agree that the M7 is more convenient and easier if you are used to using AE, but the fully mechanical nature of the MP makes it more appealing.

 

If you are using mostly B&W you should not have too many problems with metering given the latitude of the film.

 

However the idea of an mint M6 - which is basically the same as an MP - is even more pratical giving you more to spend on lenses.

[Guest Bernd Banken]

Hi Karim,

 

as James pointed out, a M6 would be a clever solution to an unexperienced newbie in Rangefinders.

You'll have to spend less money and this is important, because:

 

The tremendous success in the last 40 years for SLRs is the fact that you

 

"Get what you see" through the mounted lens, disregarding which type, tele or wide angle.

You can check the DOF and other important parameters before you press the release.

A RF camera gives you a window with frames - the longer the lens the smaller the window to frame but also the smaller the dot to focus.

 

So spend your money to a good used M and a lens which comes close to your style, if this experiment doesn't satisfy you, you don't loose money but you gain a lot of knowledge about RF cameras.

 

But keep in mind - at the end the photograph counts - disregarding the camera and brand you are using.... in my case my NikonF was my companion for such a long time...

 

Cheers

Bernd

[Guest umb]

If you want to begin afresh, think about your picture ideas rather than your equipment, the latter being rather irrelvant.

[think]

...and don't forget that the shutter speed dial on the M6TTL, M7 and M8 operate in the same direction allowing your experience with the manual metering to carry forward. Switching back and forth between the MP and M8 might prove troublesome.

[abrewer]

...and don't forget that the shutter speed dial on the M6TTL, M7 and M8 operate in the same direction allowing your experience with the manual metering to carry forward. Switching back and forth between the MP and M8 might prove troublesome.

 

Which is to say the MP shutter speed dial operates in the right direction!

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[think]

I agree, but prefer to think that there is no right or wrong (wrt shutter speed dials)...only different directions to the same end.

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[hanuman]

Thanks to all for your valuable inputs ...

 

Two things have become clear to me. I will be going for a used body and my preference would tend towards a fully mechanical one. Even if that meant missing some opportunities at the beginning, I fear that I won't force myself to really learn exposure if I have the convenience of an AE ... which is what I practised with the DSLR anyway.

 

Since I've come to a point where I really would like to have some contrast, I feel like a fully mechanical body would be the right choice for me ... and my heart says yes too.

 

Now I will go make myself a nice Xmas present ... thanks again for your feedback!