to bubble or not to bubble (WATE VF vs. alternatives)

[smoody]

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I'm close to dropping some dollars on an 18mm lens. As a viewfinder solution, I'm trying to decide between the gigantic boxy Leica WATE viewfinder, which contains a built-in bubble level, and a viewfinder that does not have a bubble level. I've never shot much wider that 21mm (and always did that using a DSLR), but I'm guessing that even the slightest tilt at, say, 18 mm will distort vertical lines. I shoot hand-held 95% of the time.

 

My questions:

 

If you own the Leica WATE viewfinder, do you find the bubble level indispensable?

 

To those of you who shoot very wide with a different viewfinder, do you miss not having a built-in level?

 

Note: I'm not personally interested in a solution that adds a separate bubble level to the camera in addition to attaching a viewfinder. And, although I can make distortion corrections in Photoshop, I'd rather not. I hate deleting pixels. :-)

[delander †]

I find the bubble level useful but not indispensable. I would not get the WATE finder without the WATE, although it is a great finder I would go for something smaller and more elegant if you are thinking of an 18mm prime lens

 

Jeff

[UliWer]

As I use the 3,8/18mm, though only with the seperate 18mm-viewfinder I would like to have a level control. Though I don't see a way to get this if you shoot handheld, as you can't control the "bubble" and the viewfinder at the same time. Or is there a way to do this?

[AlanJW]

I use the WATE and the finder. The bubble is a great help for horizontals and no help at all for verticals. But it is not indispensable, and the finder is unwieldy and POA to use. I just bought a small CV 25mm finder to use with my Zeiss 25 because I wanted to avoid having to use the big finder (I was not satisfied with "sort of" estimating the frame with any visual aid).

[Nikkor AIS]

Have you considered the Voitlander 15mm finder? It's small and well made and close to the 18mm feild of view.

 

gregory

[Alnitak]

As I use the 3,8/18mm, though only with the seperate 18mm-viewfinder I would like to have a level control. Though I don't see a way to get this if you shoot handheld, as you can't control the "bubble" and the viewfinder at the same time. Or is there a way to do this?

 

Voigltander used to sell a double shoe and they still have an angled level that allows you to see both the level and out the viewfinder at the same time. Small and very elegant, but I think you would have to find the double shoe on the used market now.

[smoody]

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As I use the 3,8/18mm, though only with the seperate 18mm-viewfinder I would like to have a level control. Though I don't see a way to get this if you shoot handheld, as you can't control the "bubble" and the viewfinder at the same time. Or is there a way to do this?

 

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your question correctly, but the Leica 16-18-21 viewfinder has a built-in bubble level that can be seen while your eye is looking through the viewfinder -- just below the framing area, so framing and then leveling simply requires looking downward a tiny amount. The one I tried at a local dealer was missing the liquid in the level so I couldn't get a sense for how well it works.

[marknorton]

I like the Universal Finder and it comes into its own on the M9 because of the number of Leica lenses which are not supported by the camera finder - 7 currently, 9 if you count the 28mm lenses which are marginal with the camera finder, especially if you wear eye glasses.

 

Further, the UF provides the sort of eye comfort I would very much like to see in the camera and which, for example, Nikon D3(x) users take for granted. They could have done more to correct the barrel distortion and I continue to be surprised at Leica's unwillingness to throw the same design and material improvements at their finders which we take for granted in their lenses.

 

The bubble's a bit of a gimmick, mine has a lump of dirt in it and the finder resists dimantling without spoiling the knob finishers. If your choice of finder relies on the bubble, it shouldn't. I think the dedicated finders provide better optical quality and possibly less distortion but I can't be messing about with a handful of the (expensive) things. The one-size-fits-all finder is more useful if you use more than one focal length in the 16mm - 28mm range.

[lars_bergquist]

A bubble level is not precise enough for leveling a superwide lens. My trick is to select a 'leveling mark' at a distance, which is at the same height as my eyes, and see that this is vertically centered in the finder. Zeiss do make a splendidly wrought and very bright 18mm finder at a price that is quite reasonable. 15mm finders are for 15mm lenses.

 

The old man from the Brass Age

[chris_tribble]

I'm with Mark on this - IMHO, the moment you have more than one wide angle lens the WATE is a good decision. I love the wide field of view, appreciate the (unique) parallax adjustment, use the bubble to good effect, and after messing around with the Leica multi-finder and various Leica and CV offerings am pleased at the thouht that I never need to get another external finder. Bulky? A bit - but once you've got used to it it's really hard to consider going back to peering through a tiny tube in order to frame an image...

[lars_bergquist]

I'm with Mark on this - IMHO, the moment you have more than one wide angle lens the WATE is a good decision. I love the wide field of view, appreciate the (unique) parallax adjustment, use the bubble to good effect, and after messing around with the Leica multi-finder and various Leica and CV offerings am pleased at the thouht that I never need to get another external finder. Bulky? A bit - but once you've got used to it it's really hard to consider going back to peering through a tiny tube in order to frame an image...

Chris, it is not the size of the tube that matters, but the size of the finder image.

 

Churchill once said that Neville Chamberlain's political horizon was as limited as the view through a municipal sewer pipe (Chamberlain had been Mayor of Manchester, as I remember). And that is not a tiny tube, but the view ... The view through a Frankenfinder is like that through the keyhole in a closed door.

 

The old man from the Brass Age

[frank_dernie]

Voigltander used to sell a double shoe and they still have an angled level that allows you to see both the level and out the viewfinder at the same time. Small and very elegant, but I think you would have to find the double shoe on the used market now.

 

I bought this double shoe device and level to use with my M6 and 12mm CV lens. It worked very well but the bubble level only lasted about 18 months before the liquid evaporated.

FWIW I had the same evaporated bubble on the 43mm viewfinder for my Mamiya 7.

Can not see an easy way to refill the bubble and a replacement is too expensive for this short a life IMO.

[Steve Fines]

I have the Frankenfinder. It works well. Wish it was smaller.

 

The bubble helps approximate things when handholding.

 

I've pre-ordered one of these new Voightlander finders to try it out. Looks promising, but there aren' any solid reviews yet.

 

Voigt 15-35 VF

[smoody]

I have the Frankenfinder. It works well. Wish it was smaller.

I've pre-ordered one of these new Voightlander finders to try it out. Looks promising, but there aren' any solid reviews yet.

Voigt 15-35 VF

 

Everyone, thanks for the input. I've also decided to order the new Voigt 15-35 zoom viewfinder. It should be here next week. I'll provide an update at that time.

 

Thanks again,

 

Scott

[Noel Holland]

You can use a normal WA viewfinder with a bubble level. Voightlander Cosina make a bubble level device that is designed to work on a double hotshoe arrangement. The double hotshoe Voigtlander made is no longer available but the Thumbs-up CSEP-4 comes quite close. You look through the viewfinder and can see the bubble level projected onto an angled mirror out the left side of your eye.

 

If you look at the Match Technical page for the CSEP-4 you can see the Voigtlander bubble level in the second to last picture on the page.

match Technical Services - Thumbs Up CSEP-4

[Rick]

Warning. Hijacking of thread ahead....

 

I have the Frankenfinder and like it very much on the WATE. I also have smaller finders but don't end up using them because if I'm going out it is just easier to grab the bigger finder and use it, rather than interchanging with other finders. The bubble level is ok, but it is not perfectly accurate and is a little persnickety to get the bubble moving sometimes. But, all in all it is nice to have something to level with when there isn't a clear horizon or other landmark to use. Recommended.

 

While the Frankenfinder experts are here... How do you tighten the flash shoe mount on the Frankenfider when it comes loose? I have taken the 4 screws off the finder and the screws off the shoe of the finder, but I can't seem to get the case to separate.

[marknorton]

While the Frankenfinder experts are here... How do you tighten the flash shoe mount on the Frankenfider when it comes loose? I have taken the 4 screws off the finder and the screws off the shoe of the finder, but I can't seem to get the case to separate.

 

Yes, I stopped at that point as well. It may be they glue the two halves together but I think you also need to remove the black knob finishers (the central metal part). I expect these stick on with a screw underneath to remove the knob.

 

The size of the FF is the price you pay for the eye comfort and the VL zooming finder looks to be equally large in its way judging by the pictures on the CameraQuest web-site. I think the hyperbole about it is a little overdone - Leica have (or had) a more modest zooming finder but of course the range is much smaller (21-28mm), the eye-piece is tiny and the eye comfort suffers as a result.

 

The FF shows it's important to retain the framelines with space around them, thereby mimicking the camera finder. The Leica zooming finder doesn't do this, you just see an out of focus frame edge.

[brill64]

if i carry the wate, i'll pack the frankenfinder it came with though to be honest, mostly i use the wate without it. when things need to be accurately level, generally architectural stuff, the camera's on a tripod with a simple bubble level. i alternate between that and a radio slave if using strobes since it's easier to see and level things when the camera is below chest height. on rare occasions that the image has to be square with the camera handheld, the bubble's useful in landscape (you can't use it in portrait). other times are when i'm close into the subject and framing's useful if you've actually remembered to switch frames. the bubble is just a bubble and definitely not worth buying for that. like marknorton says, if you have wide lenses not covered by the m9's own finder, it's useful. if you're considering getting the 18+18 finder, you will find it less bulky and complex, easier to fit and faster to frame as well as smaller to pack in your already small bag..