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epand56

Christmas gift from Leica?

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However, Leica's priority has to be to sell the M9, not to give M8 users an effectively free crop frame version of the camera. That might be harsh, but the survival long term of the company dictates it.

 

That's certainly one way to look at it. And maybe it's the right way.

 

But there is another school of thought that says a company like Leica can make its mark though superior customer care. A happy M8 owner is much more likely to buy an M9 or M10 than one who feels ignored.

Again, let's remember that Leica was still selling new M8s just a few months ago. Show customers that an investment in a Leica gets you more than a similar purchase of a Nikon or Canon.

 

In the end, any irritation M8 owners have with the company can be placed squarely at the feet of the company's leaders and their decision to announce a perpetual upgrade program for the camera in 2008. I'm sure they wish they'd never done it. But they did.

 

In their own words:

"While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention that stands for the Leica brand."

 

Maybe the "Leica brand" doesn't stand for all that much, afterall.

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Indeed, thanks (partially) to Leica's inability to deliver the M9 and its silence on the M8 front, they won't be getting my money for a new M9. I'll happily wait a few years for the M9 to come down in price on the used market. I figure that should also give me enough time to see how serious Leica is about supporting their digital M products, old and new.

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Been shooting it for two months now - scarce maybe, but inability?

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Will leica give us poor, M8 second class users a new fat and juicy firmware for Christmas?

Maybe with some of the features of the M9? Any insider trading out there?

It would be time...

 

"...whilst dreams of sugar plums dance in your head."

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Something for current and potential leica owners to consider before parting with their money.

 

maybe Leica can survive without additional customers wary of being neglected fast.

 

 

For sure, as Jaap says, adding new lenses for existing (and new, come to that) M8 users is good, and to be expected.

 

However, Leica's priority has to be to sell the M9, not to give M8 users an effectively free crop frame version of the camera. That might be harsh, but the survival long term of the company dictates it.

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Been shooting it for two months now - scarce maybe, but inability?

 

Having one in your hands gives you a different perspective... But there seems to be a large group that are posting in the M9 forum that would use the word inability....

 

 

Also I wonder of all the M9's delivered/backordered to date - How many are in the hands/dreams of previous M8 owners?... I would guess more than 50%...

 

It would seem to be in Leica's best interest that we M8 owners keep believing in Santa...

Edited by sfokevin

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The best thing we can do right now is gather together and create a petition for a new firmware update. If we can get enough people asking for further firmware support in one direct "attack", Leica will have no choice but to respond.

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The best thing we can do right now is gather together and create a petition for a new firmware update. If we can get enough people asking for further firmware support in one direct "attack", Leica will have no choice but to respond.

 

Ah... We have a true believer!!!!

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Not at all. I really don't care if the camera has manual lens selection or not. But I know a lot of users do want it. I'll admit, though, I'd love the ability to assign some other function to the ill-conceived "protect" button.

 

A bigger issue for me is the notion (and I really don't mean to blaming this notion on you) that Leica is through with the M8. I'm not saying they should be providing updates 5 or 10 years from now - but we are talking about a $5,000 camera that's been out of production for less than a year. It still deserves some attention.

 

I guess we'll disagree on this, but I'm just not buying the explanation that the M8's processor has been taxed to its limits. Rather, I think it's a case of the company choosing to spend its resources and time on other endeavors.

 

Heck, maybe other M8 users don't really care. I certainly can't speak for them. But I believe a small niche company like Leica should set itself apart through superior customer service and support for its products.

 

I'm in total agreement with you Tim. As the owner of two M8's, I care. I really don't think we're asking for much from Leica, other than some respect and some integrity on their part--backing a somewhat flawed product that was rushed to market, in my humble opinion. I have stated elsewhere on this forum that I would be happy to help offset the cost of substantially improved firmware for the M8. How much would it cost? How many resources within Leica would be required? How many people would want it if it were free, or if you wanted us to pay for it, how much would people be willing to pay? Although I probably am foolish, if it were as robust as the M9, I would pay $50-$100 for the privilege.

 

The M8.2 went out of production, if I'm correct, around early September. The M8 is still sitting on dealers shelves. If Leica would help make the M8 more desireable through firmware upgrades, it would allow someone like me to retain a higher value on the M8's I have and sell them and buy the M9 if I wanted to. Instead, at this point, I am sitting on the fence, somewhat tired of Leica's disinterest in customer support, and seriously considering moving to an entirely different camera line if things don't change.

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The problem with this is that the firmware for the M8 has been developed to nearly its limit...

The M9 requires dual processors to handle the electronics, which the M8 does not have.

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The problem with this is that the firmware for the M8 has been developed to nearly its limit...

The M9 requires dual processors to handle the electronics, which the M8 does not have.

 

Leica may not be able to put on the M8 all the features of the M9 because of harware issues BUT if Leica wants to improve the M8 (Manual Lens Selection, better noise and WB algorithms, option for 16-bit DNG when the camera is set "DNG Only", banding correction, dead/hot pixel mapping...), IMHO, it should be possible with the M8 hardware.

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better noise and WB algorithms, banding correction, dead/hot pixel mapping

 

How cool would that be; a very merry Christmas! There must be some elves looking for extra work that Leica could employ?

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Reading this thread, it sounds to me as suddenly all the M8s have stopped working?

 

Or is it that it suddenly don't take great pictures anymore, now that there is a new camera with new functionality out on the market?

 

Take the M8 for what it is, don't expect Leica to put a lot of new functionality in it. If you want new functionality you have to pay the cost (buy an M9).

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Reading this thread, it sounds to me as suddenly all the M8s have stopped working?

 

Or is it that it suddenly don't take great pictures anymore, now that there is a new camera with new functionality out on the market?

 

Take the M8 for what it is, don't expect Leica to put a lot of new functionality in it. If you want new functionality you have to pay the cost (buy an M9).

 

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who's M8 continued to work just as well after 09/09/09 as it had before. I was starting to think that I was alone.

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Mine never stopped as well, but you know, Lens Recognition via the menu is something I would really like on my PERFECTLY working M8. Most of my lenses are not coded.

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I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who's M8 continued to work just as well after 09/09/09 as it had before. I was starting to think that I was alone.

 

 

Mine never stopped as well, but you know, Lens Recognition via the menu is something I would really like on my PERFECTLY working M8. Most of my lenses are not coded.

 

Nicole, Enrico,

 

My M8s work fine (even if I had a few problems with them in the past) and I enjoy taking pictures with them everyday.

 

All my lenses are coded but I would like to have an option to use non coded lenses when needed.

 

I really think, three years later after the M8, Leica has more experience to tune WB and Noise... ISO selection could be done by 1/3 stop... as Leica has done with the M9.

 

Hot/dead pixel mapping would be really a nice feature (you can find it in entry level cameras)

 

These things don't need more processing power, just some firmware code optimization.

 

Everybody knows here that making JPG files with the camera takes a lot of processor time (we can see how long takes recording images if we set the camera to "DNG + JPG fine" vs "DNG only"...) but it would be very nice to have an option to save uncompressed 16-bit DNG when you're not using JPG out of the camera. I'm sure it will take less time to record a 16-bit DNG than a 8-bit DNG plus JPG

 

This said, I'm off to take some pictures

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I was wondering about firware updates and opensource software model. I imagine an X prize for some worthy 19 year old hacker out there could pull the M9 and the M8.2 firmware, look at it and devise some outstanding code.

 

We have thousands of guys and galls out there writing every known worm and attack known to man, I wonder what it would take to pony up an X Prize to get code hacks to compare, enrich and post various FW software loads for cameras. Plus verify we get a virus free software build, (they may not be able to help themselves if they are adicted to creating bad code).

 

Leica's are at the top of the food chain in image and the unique rangefinder gender, but I see a world where one can have a menu driven drag and drop feature set firmware builder application. One may be limited to using the onboard ram module in the bios to hold such code. But think of this, I do certain kinds of shoots on certain days, If my bios ram was factory limited, I could load up 75% of all basic feature and drag and drop the very desired features into the set and load onboard for the day/weeks shoot. Change back to generic load when needed and such.

 

I do this with my computer, I load software, take software off, customize it for the job at hand.

 

So, I'm either thinking outside the box or waiting for Santa to drop me more than a lump of coal in the sock hung by the fireplace. I believe we have seen the end of the era where Leica makes models for 10 years or more running. Until they come out with innovations like internal gut swapping to remove the M8 module and inset the M10 module, keeping the same body we may be better off posting an X prize and getting some options into our own hands.

 

Lee

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Leica may not be able to put on the M8 all the features of the M9 because of harware issues BUT if Leica wants to improve the M8 (Manual Lens Selection, better noise and WB algorithms, option for 16-bit DNG when the camera is set "DNG Only", banding correction, dead/hot pixel mapping...), IMHO, it should be possible with the M8 hardware.

Of these it seems (Leica claims) that manual lens selection and 16 bits are difficult and I wouldn't hold my breath for noise reduction, but things like the current shutter issues some have experienced and banding correction would not seem to be beyond the realm of the possible. I am convinced Leica will bring out an update for one or more of your list in the (albeit not to near) future. They brought out a final update for the DMR long after it was discontimued, after all.

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My M8 meets my requirements. I have no plans to switch to an M9. However, around the time the M10 appears I'll be needing to replace the M8. At that time, if I feel Leica haven't adequately supported my ongoing M8 ownership, I will not make the same mistake twice.

 

Those who say it is not to Leica's economic benefit to provide the occasional firmware update for a defunct model are wrong. It is absolutely in Leica's best interests - it is an investment in the loyalty of their customers and therefore in the securing of future sales.

Edited by Speenth

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