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Some M8 advantages


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5. The M8's dynamic range is slightly better. Erwin Puts posted the data showing this. It might be very small, but it's there.

 

Dante

 

Dante,

 

Erwin is the only one stating that:

 

It was contradicted here :

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/103042-m9-has-indeed-one-stop-advantage.html

 

and here

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/103648-m9-just-one-iso-stop-behind.html

 

and in several other tests.

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I will run a side by side real photos test within this week with both cameras but earlier in that thread i post one photo in 2500 iso BW M8 with only few candles and black clothes and waiting for a similar image from M9.Proper comparison is coming soon ,in the thread -M9 FORUM- regarding Erwin Put post i submit many recorded tests with IMATEST and my M8 that are in accordance with Erwins test and for a proof i submit tests with other cameras that came at the same results at various parts of the world and from different people far apart .Lets stay at the topic of that thread "Some M8 advantages":)

I tested my M8 against Canon 5D with Imatest in 2007.That test shows that M8 has better dynamic range to 5D which is accepted as reference camera regarding image quality worldwide and is offering the world of photography amazing images.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/102190-erwin-puts-leica-m9-part-5-a-6.html

Edited by Angelos Viskadourakis
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regarding Erwin Put post i submit many recorded tests with IMATEST and my M8 that are in accordance with Erwins test and for a proof i submit tests with other cameras that came at the same results at various parts of the world and from different people far apart .

 

It is not clear.

 

Did you test the M9 ?

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I will run a side by side real photos test within this week with both cameras but earlier in that thread i post one photo in 2500 iso BW M8 with only few candles and black clothes and waiting for a similar image from M9.Proper comparison is coming soon ,in the thread -M9 FORUM- regarding Erwin Put post i submit many recorded tests with IMATEST and my M8 that are in accordance with Erwins test and for a proof i submit tests with other cameras that came at the same results at various parts of the world and from different people far apart .Lets stay at the topic of that thread "Some M8 advantages":)

I tested my M8 against Canon 5D with Imatest in 2007.That test shows that M8 has better dynamic range to 5D which is accepted as reference camera regarding image quality worldwide and is offering the world of photography amazing images.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/102190-erwin-puts-leica-m9-part-5-a-6.html

 

what exactly is not clear? i tested M8 and canon 5D side by side in 2007 and the IMATEST results are in the link ,M9 Imatest coming soon most propably and i hope compared to M8 with the same lens and size factor calculated.:)No i have not tested M9 with Imatest yet,normaly i test the cameras i use mostly and only after i develop a personal photographic sense and feeling for each camera as the test can tell me that something is not as good but maybe i like the image more than the one considered better by the test.;)

Edited by Angelos Viskadourakis
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what exactly is not clear? i tested M8 and canon 5D side by side in 2007 and the IMATEST results are in the link ,M9 Imatest coming soon most propably and i hope compared to M8 with the same lens and size factor calculated.:)No i have not tested M9 with Imatest yet,normaly i test the cameras i use mostly .

 

Thank you, now it is clear.

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Thank you, now it is clear.

Glad that now is clear,none of my points are related to that area anyway, at anytime.:)

But Erwin Puts have tested M9 with Imatest you can take a look there for the moment until my figures arrive.Reality is that you can call a glass either half empty or half full is the same meaning expressed in different ways,that is the case ,looks like.Is not much less noise neither much better is a little -maybe 2/3 of a stop better,not bad anyway.Go figure Lucien.

Edited by Angelos Viskadourakis
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It is not clear.

 

Did you test the M9 ?

i wonder if i should keep the M8 bodies and buy the 21 f1,4 to stay at 640 iso or spend the same amount of money for M9 and use my 28 f2,8 asph at 2500 iso for the same exposure-and still missing the sapphire glass on the screen(M8.2),please advice.:)

Which combination will give me less noise and more workable DOF?:rolleyes:

Edited by Angelos Viskadourakis
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i wonder if i should keep the M8 bodies and buy the 21 f1,4 to stay at 640 iso or to spend the same amount of money for M9 and use my 28 f2,8 asph at 2500 iso for the same exposure-and still missing the sapphire glass on the screen,please advice.:)

 

Don't forget to buy the separate finder with your 21/1,4.

 

;)

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Don't forget to buy the separate finder with your 21/1,4.

 

;)

Sorry but the viewfinder was not part of my question ,see 2 posts above for question ^^^^^^.

I already have many viewfinders also from other makers all top-they come in various prices ,some higher,some much lower and all top.:)

 

Which comBination you think will give me less noise and adequate DOF?:rolleyes:

Edited by Angelos Viskadourakis
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i wonder if i should keep the M8 bodies and buy the 21 f1,4 to stay at 640 iso or spend the same amount of money for M9 and use my 28 f2,8 asph at 2500 iso for the same exposure-and still missing the sapphire glass on the screen(M8.2),please advice.

 

Which combination will give me less noise and more workable DOF?

 

Clearly you should choose the M8 + 21/1,4 over the M9 with your 28/2,8.

 

I choose to keep my 28/2 and have an M9.

 

It gives me now the same noise level @1250 as your solution @ 640, same depth of field, same lens quality and I will not need a separate finder which is crucial for focusing and composing wide open.

 

And I don't need the filter UV/IR.

 

A much lighter combination.

 

And I still have my M8 as a backup.

 

I know that you will not agree on the noise level, but others does:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/103042-m9-has-indeed-one-stop-advantage.html

 

Lucien

Edited by imported_leicaiste
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:)Thank you Lucien

i will start thinking to get one M9 after i see what kind of today solutions will Leica offer -paid or unpaid- for the Leica M8 photographers as this will create the commercial new ethos that Leica will follow the next years. :)Comming years will be full of upgrades,new sensors,new processors,new A/D converters with detrimental differences in image quality,we have to create from now an upgrade path as the investment is huge and just remember that M film cameras stay alive as a camera system because it maintains a high value and usability for very long time-among other merits .

If this cannot be secured in the digital area then prices have to become in parallel with todays electronics market,eg.change often camera bodies in lower prices-every 2 or 3 years- and invest in lenses.

We have to offer some thinking in that field and contribute,now.:)I like to believe that M photographers-not buyers- are a passionate and enthousiastic community and i hope we are considerate too.

Anticipating the Leica R Solution,hopefully soon.Was expecting before M9.

PS.i have to like my UV/IR CUT filters as i have ten-eleven M lenses- of them at the cost of 1/3+ of a Leica M9.alredy paid.As you see there are various issue need to be adressed.

Edited by Angelos Viskadourakis
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i will start thinking to get one m9 after i see what kind of today solutions will leica offer -paid or unpaid- for the leica m8 photographers as this will create the commercial new ethos that leica will follow the next years. :)

 

coming years will be full of upgrades,new sensors,new processors,new a/d converters with detrimental differences in image quality,we have to create from now an upgrade path as the investment is huge and just remember that m film cameras stay alive as a camera system because it maintains a high value and usability for very long time-among other merits .

 

IMO, you will never have an M9 then, because the M9 is the only new hardware upgrade that you can expect from Leica.

 

And I think that Leica was right to put its limited resources at the right place for once.

 

If this cannot be secured in the digital area then prices have to become in parallel with todays electronics market,eg.change often camera bodies in lower prices-every 2 or 3 years- and invest in lenses.

 

Welcome in the 21th century @ Leica prices...

 

anticipating the leica r solution,hopefully soon.was expecting before m9.

I have a sizable investment in the R system, but I am very pessimistic about that. They stopped making and designing new lenses to long ago. But you never know with Leica.

 

Ps.i have to like my uv/ir cut filters as i have ten-eleven m lenses- of them at the cost of 1/3+ of a leica m9.alredy paid.as you see there are various issue need to be adressed.

 

I started using the Leica M system in 1984 (M6). Now that the M9 is there, the investment made in it over the years make sense again.

 

You see, I also have an M8 and UV/IR filters but I never invested in any of their new wide-angle lenses that I knew I would not use anymore as soon as a FF will come. I don't like separate finders.

 

And I never bought an M8.2 as a much needed backup for almost the same reasons:

 

- there was no way that I would invest in a second and even certainly more short lived version of a camera that was for me an accident in the evolution of the M.

 

- like everybody on this forum I knew the M9 was coming sooner or later.

 

I was lucky and pleasantly surprised that it was sooner.

 

But the M8 is still the excellent camera it was before the release of the M9. Other than the impossible FF sensor upgrade, I don't see any hardware or software upgrade that will improve its IQ.

 

If your 10 or 11 lenses are matching the M8 sensor and you are happy with its frames, why would you want to upgrade to the M9 ?

 

Lucien

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Okay, same question without the pixels.

 

Peter,

 

If you could start from scratch again would you choose :

 

the M8 + 24/2.8 (= 32) + 28/2 (= 37)

 

or

 

the M9 + 28/2 + 35/1,4

 

for those pictures ?

 

Lucien

Hi Lucien- Your question goes to the point of my original post. While the 2 images posted may not be definitive examples, (to say the least), I would in fact prefer to use the 24/2.8 asph for detailed landcapes than a 28/2 asph, and would prefer to use the 28/2 for images where central sharpness with "pop" is desired, with a nice bokeh to the background which I think the 28/2 does better than the 35/14 asph. I also like having 24mm framelines for the 24/2.8.....so the M8 suites well for these shots. Of course, the M9 would do just fine, and so would the lenses used for the same FOV, and the extra pixels would be nice as well. I am NOT saying I prefer the M8 to the M9, I haven't even held an M9. I was just pointing out the fact that 24mm framelines and a 1/8000 shutter speed can be seen as advantages in certain situations. This seems to be an unassailable point! best....Peter

Edited by innerimager
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Hi Lucien- Advantages of one do not negate advantages of the other. And the M9 has many advantages over the M8, full frame being the most important, but 28mm framelines is not one of them as it is shared with the M8. But... does the M9 have 135mm framelines? That would be one for the M9! best...Peter

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And the M9 has many advantages over the M8, full frame being the most important, but 28mm framelines is not one of them as it is shared with the M8. But... does the M9 have 135mm framelines? That would be one for the M9! best...Peter

 

Dear Peter,

 

There are no 24mm or 28mm framelines on the M8 as such.

 

The equivalent framelines on the M8 are 32-37-46-66-100-120 (and 180 if one uses the googled 135/2,8)

 

On the M9 there are real 28-35-50-75-90-135 framelines.

 

Best,

 

Lucien

Edited by imported_leicaiste
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On the M9 there are real 28-35-50-75-90-135 framelines.

 

This is one of the most ridiculous petty and embarrassing things I've read on this forum for a long time. Congratulations that your camera with inferior color rendering and less sharp sensor has "real" framelines.

 

This I should take back, because it is me behaving nearly as oafishly as you.

//Now please go away.

Edited by plasticman
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I don't think the advantages of the M8 are technical. I what the main advantage of the M8 it is a known entity. We know that we need a filter, we expect certain colour shifts in certain lighting, and that mostly has been dealt with. The M9 is new, thus we need to make our selves feel good about what is comfortable. The M9 is still unknown, with early firmware, no embedded profiles, etc. We as a user community is still wondering (considering the M8's history) when the "other shoe is going to drop". What beast is going to rase it's ugly head... Cyan drift, banding, sensor off center, etc.? It's true we don't know, it may be months before we do know. Those who are early adopters will have there challenges, and there joy's. At $7g, it's quite a risk, but in the end, I think it's worth it, and when the M10 ships, there will be threads about how the M9 has advantages. Each camera is unique, In some ways even the Epson has advantages, but that is what happens when the camera maker is responsible for the sensor quality rather than a film maker... Before it was not really an investment to switch from ilford to kodak. Now it's thousands.... but that is the way of digital. It's also the risk.

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"Welcome in the 21th century @ Leica prices..."QUOTE._imported_leicaiste

 

 

Leica sales department has to come in 21st century i have been here long time ago and was asking camera manufactures to join us ,some did some still need a lot of pushing-their sales dept. especially ..:)

Sales easy come easy go.

 

 

"But the M8 is still the excellent camera it was before the release of the M9. Other than the impossible FF sensor upgrade, I don't see any hardware or software upgrade that will improve its IQ." QUOTE._imported_leicaiste

 

Many other Leica photographers do see a lot of hardware and software that can and has to be applied in M8s.

in one of your posts you are talking about the better noise performance with the next M9 firmware in October that is what i expect for M8 plus some other software changes not because i need them but more to see how the new strategist in Leica sales deals with the 21st century photographers.:)

Edited by Angelos Viskadourakis
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Guys, guys, guys. Please calm down a little before somebody says something they will later regret. It's clear that you are not going to agree on this subject, so accept this, and move on. The M8 and the M9 are two different cameras. Each has it's strengths and it's weaknesses, but both are great cameras, and both can use the best lenses available. :)

 

To me, the great advantage of the M8 is that I have one. An M9 would also be welcome, but until that day comes, I'm quite happy with my M8. :D

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