sleuthin1 Posted November 30, 2014 Share #1 Posted November 30, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) After reading this forum, I've come to learn that I'm resurrected an old topic and I'm sorry for doing so (particularly after witnessing how nasty some folks can be when old news is new news again). But I need some help. I'm new to Leica and recently purchased an M8. Tonight I took it out and shot parts of Downtown Las Vegas at ISO1250. Some great shots and then quite surprised when I noticed several images had vertical lines in the same place; also noticed several others had a thick vertical (top to bottom) in the middle of the image. I sent an email to Leica support in NJ; waiting to hear back. In the meantime, I've downloaded two images. Aside from the bad composition, any diagnosis about the lines? Matt Las Vegas Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 30, 2014 Posted November 30, 2014 Hi sleuthin1, Take a look here Vertical Line Problem Resurrected. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sleuthin1 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted November 30, 2014 Only image I was able to download. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/237815-vertical-line-problem-resurrected/?do=findComment&comment=2717477'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 30, 2014 Share #3 Posted November 30, 2014 Hi Matt, welcome to LUF Forum This phenomenon is normal , it's "banding" * in "high isos" and "crop" Some infos here : http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/109574-m8-m9-high-iso-banding-questions.html Best Henry * normal for any sensor Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla Posted November 30, 2014 Share #4 Posted November 30, 2014 I can help you with that. The thick middle line is a result of the two sensor halves being readout at two positions and the two results not being equalised correctly. So what you see is not a line but a difference in brightness between the two halves. You might also notice that the image gets brighter to the left and right edge of the sensor. The vertical lines that stay in the same lines result from a hot or stuck or dead pixel, one can send it to the service to let them map those pixels in the firmware. I've developed a tool that removes all those effects, so if you're interested I can show you how... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla Posted November 30, 2014 Share #5 Posted November 30, 2014 Image comparison: top its what the M8's image normally looks like... Down ia after the tool correction. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/237815-vertical-line-problem-resurrected/?do=findComment&comment=2717546'>More sharing options...
sleuthin1 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted November 30, 2014 Thank you for your responses. Doc Henry, I've read the attached threads; thanks for sending. Like anything else, the Leica M8 has its strengths and weaknesses; I'll learn to work within both. It's a fun system and it beats lugging around my D800. That all said, I don't know how old the unit is but I'm sure a tune up is in order - after all I wouldn't drive my car without an oil change so why would I do the same with a great camera like Leica. Again, thank you. Cheers, Matt Las Vegas Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleuthin1 Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted December 1, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks Bla. I've downloaded your app but am having difficulty configuring it. I'm not patient with computers so it's me, I'm sure. I'd like to give your app a try otherwise I'm sending the camera back to B&H for a replacement or my money back. I've already contacted them about the banding issue and they were quick to send me return address labels. Doesn't give me much confidence in the M8 system. ______________ Cheers, Matt Las Vegas Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleuthin1 Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted December 1, 2014 Let me rephrase: I have confidence in the system but not in this unit shooting at high ISO. Vegas is a such a great place to shoot at night that I want a unit that I can take with me on the Las Vegas Strip day or night and get great results. I suppose I should be patient. I did look at the M9-P if the M8 doesn't work out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted December 1, 2014 Share #9 Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Let me rephrase: I have confidence in the system but not in this unit shooting at high ISO. Vegas is a such a great place to shoot at night that I want a unit that I can take with me on the Las Vegas Strip day or night and get great results. I suppose I should be patient. I did look at the M9-P if the M8 doesn't work out. Matt, I sent you a message here : post 676 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/197832-still-loving-m8-34.html As I said all sensor can have this problem. I now shoot film , Leica M7 and new M-A Best Henry Edited December 1, 2014 by Doc Henry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted December 1, 2014 Share #10 Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) double sorry Edited December 1, 2014 by Doc Henry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bla Posted December 1, 2014 Share #11 Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Hey Matt, I can help you set that up. Anyway did you try shooting low iso and pushing? Done correctly one can really get quite good results with the m8 and highish iso. (of course not compared to Sony sensors of the latest generation) Just contact me by mail and we'll have a look. Cheers, Arvid PS: it helps if you don't push the blacks too far. Especially with the compressed DNG the darkest areas are the most problematic. Edited December 1, 2014 by bla Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted December 7, 2014 Share #12 Posted December 7, 2014 I am deeply disturbed by the line problem and having to return it to be further buggered up by the repair folks and having to pay a fat fee on top of it. Now I have found about the sensor pitting issue on the M9. This is top of the line equipment that is defective right from the box. I can not control cosmic rays and can not control humidity attacking the sensor cover. Perhaps we are all better off buying "throw away" cameras. When the warrantee is up and something goes bad , toss it and buy new. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
codocee Posted December 27, 2014 Share #13 Posted December 27, 2014 M8 strength is not high iso, which can reveal the vertical line issue. Save your money and use it with IR/UV filters at low iso and enjoy. It is a great camera, particularly shooting for black and white images. Anything better at this is going to cost dearly. Great camera! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 27, 2014 Share #14 Posted December 27, 2014 I am deeply disturbed by the line problem and having to return it to be further buggered up by the repair folks and having to pay a fat fee on top of it. Now I have found about the sensor pitting issue on the M9. This is top of the line equipment that is defective right from the box. I can not control cosmic rays and can not control humidity attacking the sensor cover. Perhaps we are all better off buying "throw away" cameras. When the warrantee is up and something goes bad , toss it and buy new. We are talking an M8 here, right? Eight years for taking it out of the box is really a bit slow, don’t you think? and since when is Leica charging fat fees for sensor remapping? Nor does the M8 sensor corrode. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 27, 2014 Share #15 Posted December 27, 2014 M8 strength is not high iso, which can reveal the vertical line issue. Save your money and use it with IR/UV filters at low iso and enjoy. It is a great camera, particularly shooting for black and white images. Anything better at this is going to cost dearly. Great camera! The M8 can be shot with perfectly fine results at high ISO. The real problem is that the low light will cause folks to underexpose massively, and that is something the camera indeed does not like. Try shooting some high ISO scenes with a generous exposure and remember that the meter gets confused by specular highlights that should be blown out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 27, 2014 Share #16 Posted December 27, 2014 640 iso is more or less the limit for my M8.2. 1250 can be used if i don't have to overexpose in PP but i avoid it as far as i can the same way as i avoid 4000 with M240 or Fuji X-E2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted December 28, 2014 Share #17 Posted December 28, 2014 I picked this tip up on the internet - was referring to Canon DSLR's but worked on Leica too: The other day one of my M8.2 cameras started having a vertical red line down the frame. There were a few dead pixels and the line seemed to be coming from one of them. I hadn't noticed the dead pixels because Lightroom on DNG files automatically corrects for them. I was shooting JPG in B&W (which is brilliant on the M8.2 probably the equal to my MM) so it was then that I noticed the line and the dead pixels. Looking on the net I picked this up:- Put the body cap on the camera and do a B exposure for at least 30 seconds. I did this and amazingly NO dead pixels and no line. don't know how it works but it sorted my camera and the images are now perfect. This was a few days ago and the images are still OK so I think it seems to be a permanent fix. Anybody else heard of or done this?? Regards Paul Mac Hi Paul I've noticed the "self healing" of the M8 sensor also. Several times in fact. A couple of times when I updated firmware, and others just over time. Once had red line problem, but that went away. Dead, or overactive pixels have repaired too. Why? I know not why? cheers Dave S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleuthin1 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted January 4, 2015 Hello everyone. Well, I sent my first Leica M8 back to B&H in New Jersey and I just got a replacement yesterday. Way excited to get out in the field and start shooting again with this great piece of joy. I've already done a few test shots and there are no dead pixel or banding issues. WoooHooo! I do have a question: there are comments about the M8 shooting fine under high iso so long as one is mindful about not underexposing. What's the technique to ensure this? Cheers, Matt Las Vegas, Nevada Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 4, 2015 Share #19 Posted January 4, 2015 Just do not underexpose. And don't worry about blowing highlights that do not matter for your image. Don't use exposure compensation; if you are in a lighting situation that requires that you override the camera meter switch the camera to manual. Often in such cases an incident light reading by an external exposure meter works best. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleuthin1 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share #20 Posted January 4, 2015 Thank you Jaap! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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