Jump to content

S2 to S006: Worth an Upgrade?


RobertGeorge

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A quick question:

 

What are people's thoughts on the upgrade from S2 to S006?

 

I'm happy with my S2-p, it's seeing me through my MA study and didn't miss a beat at Ayacucho's Semana Santa (Holy Week) this month. I have an opportunity to trade it, and a moderate sum, for a 006.

 

My lenses are the 100mm-S, and the 45mm + 210mm Zeiss via the C adapter. I'm ethnographic portrait through and through, with no posing or artificial light. Improved ISO is a boon for the religious night parades I shoot, as is better shutter dampening to improve hand-held shooting at 1/60 -- 1/125 range. Any AF improvements would also be welcome.

 

I'm aware of the improved screen and finder, as well as the GPS and level. Nice improvements, but nothing I'm clambering for.

 

About 18 months ago I did a very basic comparison in the Manchester store while deciding whether to pay a much larger trade-up fee. My tests were very basic, and I didn't notice AF improvements (using my 100mm) nor a major jump is ISO performance (In lower light I tend to shoot the S2-p at 640 and push. Pushing an identical (in shutter speed and aperture terms) 006 ISO800 shot and a S2 ISO640 shot to the correct exposure resulted in shots that, though different, I couldn't class as 'better' or 'worse.'

Conversely, I was able to regularly achieve sharper shots on the 006 at shutters speeds between 1/60 and 1/125. They really worked on that shutter.

 

My tests were far from scientific, so I'd appreciate any advice from people that have made the upgrade or run the two together. I'm not desperate to upgrade, the S2 has me contented. But after 3 years in the system, which I love, the opportunity to modernise is attractive

 

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites

A quick question:

 

What are people's thoughts on the upgrade from S2 to S006?

 

I'm happy with my S2-p, it's seeing me through my MA study and didn't miss a beat at Ayacucho's Semana Santa (Holy Week) this month. I have an opportunity to trade it, and a moderate sum, for a 006.

 

My lenses are the 100mm-S, and the 45mm + 210mm Zeiss via the C adapter. I'm ethnographic portrait through and through, with no posing or artificial light. Improved ISO is a boon for the religious night parades I shoot, as is better shutter dampening to improve hand-held shooting at 1/60 -- 1/125 range. Any AF improvements would also be welcome.

 

I'm aware of the improved screen and finder, as well as the GPS and level. Nice improvements, but nothing I'm clambering for.

 

About 18 months ago I did a very basic comparison in the Manchester store while deciding whether to pay a much larger trade-up fee. My tests were very basic, and I didn't notice AF improvements (using my 100mm) nor a major jump is ISO performance (In lower light I tend to shoot the S2-p at 640 and push. Pushing an identical (in shutter speed and aperture terms) 006 ISO800 shot and a S2 ISO640 shot to the correct exposure resulted in shots that, though different, I couldn't class as 'better' or 'worse.'

Conversely, I was able to regularly achieve sharper shots on the 006 at shutters speeds between 1/60 and 1/125. They really worked on that shutter.

 

My tests were far from scientific, so I'd appreciate any advice from people that have made the upgrade or run the two together. I'm not desperate to upgrade, the S2 has me contented. But after 3 years in the system, which I love, the opportunity to modernise is attractive

 

Rob

Your observation about S2 and S006 is correct. The improvement only happen at ergonomics and slightly image review speed. The four way button is the reason to upgrade but it really depend on how much difference you gonna pay. Sensor wise, somehow I even slightly prefer S2, though they are ultimately the same.

 

I don't even feel S007 AF is much better than S006 IMO, what S006 lacking pretty much inherent to S007(mainly Af accuracy over difficult condition. )

 

To put it another way, we can see how advanced S2 use to be and how less work Leica has be done for the S over last 8 year or so, that is long time in digital age.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

why stay with the S?

 

A big finder, high-level weather sealing, wonderful lenses and simple photography are my (admittedly low-key) camera-system requirements. The S system seems tailor made for me, and I'm not yet feeling the pixel pinch despite regularly printing beyond A0. 

 

The Pentax 645 system doesn't have the high-end 85mm equivalent that's my bread and butter. The Blad H and Phase One systems don't have the weather protection I need for world-wide ethnographic work. I saw an appreciable difference moving from a Nikon D800e and Zeiss 85mm f1.4 that I'm still not interesting in going back to 35mm. The Fuji is the first system, when the 110mm arrives in stores, that ticks enough boxes to consider. Still plenty of questions, is losing an OVF worth a nominal pixel count increase and is the 110mm as good a the 100-S? I do like the wide-ranging lens adaptability inherent in mirrorless systems: sticking an Otus 85mm on a GFX for a Catholic night parade is attractive, given AF is out the window in those light conditions. 

 

 

Your observation about S2 and S006 is correct. The improvement only happen at ergonomics and slightly image review speed. The four way button is the reason to upgrade but it really depend on how much difference you gonna pay. Sensor wise, somehow I even slightly prefer S2, though they are ultimately the same.

 

I don't even feel S007 AF is much better than S006 IMO, what S006 lacking pretty much inherent to S007(mainly Af accuracy over difficult condition. )

 

To put it another way, we can see how advanced S2 use to be and how less work Leica has be done for the S over last 8 year or so, that is long time in digital age.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. That does marry with my feelings after testing – that at 1/250th+, shooting portraits during daylight as I do 85% of the time, I'd go home with equivalent photographs and less money in my pocket. And my night work would benefit more from investing that (then) substantial sum in an accompanying, modern 35mm system. 

 

Still hoping to hear more opinions. 

 

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites

A big finder, high-level weather sealing, wonderful lenses and simple photography are my (admittedly low-key) camera-system requirements. The S system seems tailor made for me, and I'm not yet feeling the pixel pinch despite regularly printing beyond A0. 

 

The Pentax 645 system doesn't have the high-end 85mm equivalent that's my bread and butter. The Blad H and Phase One systems don't have the weather protection I need for world-wide ethnographic work. I saw an appreciable difference moving from a Nikon D800e and Zeiss 85mm f1.4 that I'm still not interesting in going back to 35mm. The Fuji is the first system, when the 110mm arrives in stores, that ticks enough boxes to consider. Still plenty of questions, is losing an OVF worth a nominal pixel count increase and is the 110mm as good a the 100-S? I do like the wide-ranging lens adaptability inherent in mirrorless systems: sticking an Otus 85mm on a GFX for a Catholic night parade is attractive, given AF is out the window in those light conditions. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. That does marry with my feelings after testing – that at 1/250th+, shooting portraits during daylight as I do 85% of the time, I'd go home with equivalent photographs and less money in my pocket. And my night work would benefit more from investing that (then) substantial sum in an accompanying, modern 35mm system. 

 

Still hoping to hear more opinions. 

 

Rob

 

 

Why not the GFX? better focus/more accurate focus with the EVF and lacking the mirror box, relatively better ergonomics due to weight, cost effective, better optics (though a lot of people will kill me for making this statement), weather sealed, versatile for adaptability on view camera, way way way more cost effective, better sensor technology. etc etc...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was not mentioned that the S2 does not receive Firmware updates anymore.

 

I have never owned an S2 (of any type), but tend to play with the idea from time to time, as I still have two Contax lenses sitting on the shelf. Older S2s seem to sell really poor these days, on prices along with a new Contax adapter which are about 1-2k less than an M10.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm not sure the ergonomics are a slam dunk, the build certainly felt short of the S in my hour with camera.

 

 

The current GFX lens range sits outside my interest, don't want a zoom, super wide, 50 or a macro. Again, if the 110mm is comparable in quality to the 100-s, I'm interested. I'll be able to do direct comparisons when the lens arrives in stores.

 

I haven't taken to any EVF yet. Even the SL's seems to separate you from the subject. And contrasts don't match the scene you're standing in. Focus peaking in manual focus could help me, but I've never tried that in the dark so can't be sure of its effectiveness.

 

Sensor wise, the S2 has plenty of DR and pixels. I know what I'm doing, front-to-back, when I edit a file. There's a lot to be said for a consistent workflow when on a project that's spanned 2 years and still has at least another 18 months to go.

 

It's not outlandish to believe that the nominal print-size and DR gains of the GFX wouldn't balance the disruption to my capture and editing practice.

 

The time will come where there's a system that offers me most of what I want and big enough gains to make the change. I'm not convinced the first GFX is it, though the system has huge promise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also with the S006 the lens firmware upgrades are done via the camera body.

 

If you ever contemplated using the S lenses on the SL your S lenses will need to have a certain firmware.

 

If you have the S006 or S007 body just attaching them to that body would make sure that they have the latest firmware as well.  

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure the ergonomics are a slam dunk, the build certainly felt short of the S in my hour with camera.

The current GFX lens range sits outside my interest, don't want a zoom, super wide, 50 or a macro. Again, if the 110mm is comparable in quality to the 100-s, I'm interested. I'll be able to do direct comparisons when the lens arrives in stores.

I haven't taken to any EVF yet. Even the SL's seems to separate you from the subject. And contrasts don't match the scene you're standing in. Focus peaking in manual focus could help me, but I've never tried that in the dark so can't be sure of its effectiveness.

Sensor wise, the S2 has plenty of DR and pixels. I know what I'm doing, front-to-back, when I edit a file. There's a lot to be said for a consistent workflow when on a project that's spanned 2 years and still has at least another 18 months to go.

It's not outlandish to believe that the nominal print-size and DR gains of the GFX wouldn't balance the disruption to my capture and editing practice.

The time will come where there's a system that offers me most of what I want and big enough gains to make the change. I'm not convinced the first GFX is it, though the system has huge promise.

In another word. You want Nothing else but Leica. Hahaha.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff,

 

Can you give examples?  Most used S007 bodies that I have seen are still around $10-11K which is still more than a new Hasselblad X1D or a Fuji GFX.

 

Thanks, Joris.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff,

 

Can you give examples? Most used S007 bodies that I have seen are still around $10-11K which is still more than a new Hasselblad X1D or a Fuji GFX.

 

Thanks, Joris.

It's all relative, considering the S2 came out near $25k. One needs to shop around and get to know dealers who handle the S, e.g., Tony Rose at Popflash and several others. I could have bought a new one for near $12k. Plus the OP already owns the lenses and accessories, so the cost needs to be considered in the context of someone switching systems.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
Link to post
Share on other sites

I upgraded from S2 to S006 because it felt more "tight", more modern, and slightly better ISO. Very happy with IQ.

 

But I upgraded from S006 to S007 primarily for ISO, too often I was limited by shutter speed, and the S is sensitive to shake.

 

The improved ISO of the 007 extended the usage envelope of the S, more keepers handheld, in more demanding situations.

 

It all comes at a price, but the IQ of all 3 is great, and quite similar, but the difference in usage envelope is significant.

Edited by erlingmm
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I find it oddly bizarre that people are touting the GFX, Hassy and other systems. I get it, but I still find it bizarre when you have people that have actually used these systems saying the major differences is losing an OVF, losing the super S glass and losing weather sealing. To me, an S is meant to be a workhorse and used in multiple environments, has the best OVF in the business and the best lenses. Not ONE of the other systems have that... and I own the Pentax 645Z and have regularly used the Hassy's. AS FOR FUJI... I will say what I have said to a lot of folks about Fuji: they are great until they are not. I think the build quality of ALL of the Fuji cameras in 2017 is piss poor. You can't compare ANY of these systems to the Leica S. Its a LEICA after all and that means something...

 

IMHO moving from an S2 to a 006 is not enough of an upgrade. Try like hell to get a 007.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it oddly bizarre that people are touting the GFX, Hassy and other systems. I get it, but I still find it bizarre when you have people that have actually used these systems saying the major differences is losing an OVF, losing the super S glass and losing weather sealing. To me, an S is meant to be a workhorse and used in multiple environments, has the best OVF in the business and the best lenses. Not ONE of the other systems have that... and I own the Pentax 645Z and have regularly used the Hassy's. AS FOR FUJI... I will say what I have said to a lot of folks about Fuji: they are great until they are not. I think the build quality of ALL of the Fuji cameras in 2017 is piss poor. You can't compare ANY of these systems to the Leica S. Its a LEICA after all and that means something...

 

IMHO moving from an S2 to a 006 is not enough of an upgrade. Try like hell to get a 007.

 

 

Wow, Fuji deserve the term 'piss poor quality', I wonder what Leica in all their history of digital camera deserves? My piss poor english really can't find the word for it... 'legendary' maybe, as in all is in the 'legend'...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also recommend to go to the S007, since you win the high ISO and get even faster AF.

 

And I am also surprized, why people suggest to switch systems to a camera with a worse viewfinder, less lens options, not much long time experience, and a bulky body. The guy allready owns the lenses he likes, why on earth should he switch to another brand?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the help, everyone. 

 

Receiving the 006 tomorrow. The trade-up price was even lower than I'd hoped, and it was an easy decision. The S2 and 100mm-S was giving me what I needed, so looking forward to that sensor wrapped in newer tech. You're both exactly right about the 007 offering a more serious jump, but that'll have to wait until after the post-grad. 

 

Wish I was as committed to my ex as that lad is his Fuji. Must be bliss having true love.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When the S006 came out I also upgraded from S2 to S006. So even though I voted for the S007 I think the S006 is a good option as well , specially for the prices now. 

I think you gain slightly better color, half stop better ISO, various small improvements regarding viewfinder and AF. Enjoy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...