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Colour shift with MP240 and Zeiss 18mm Distagon f4


w44neg

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I bought an f4 Distagon recently. Sharpness and detail are incredible on my MP240 safari but every image has a purple hue to the right hand 5% of the frame.

 

I've been able to correct it in most situations in PP but it's a bit of a pain as I ended up using it a lot recently on a trip and now I'll have ti go through every image in the same manner.

 

Is this normal? Would a WATE or the like suffer the same issues? The Zeiss isn't coded of course so would a coded wide angle help the camera to compensate for this or is it just physics?

 

L1000524_zpsb0daoz4z.jpg

 

L1000302_zpskg0m8z4h.jpg

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I do not have a 240 so may be giving an uninformed answer. With my M9 I get very good results with a manual setting for #11134 (21mm F:/2.8). Certainly all unwanted red is removed and vignetting is greatly reduced. Possibly this is slightly over correcting  at the smaller F: stops. Let me know how it works for you with a 240. Regards, Ron

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In my M240, I set the lens code to 21mm f2.8 pre-Asph when I use the Zeiss 18mm f4 ZM. All red-edge is gone! If this doesn't work for you, I would suspect your lens sample is poorly centered and you may want to trade it in for a better sample. Good luck. Tom

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Classic "Italian Flag" syndrome - so-called because many lenses produce a corresponding green/cyan stain on the opposite side from the purple/red stain. This - BTW - is why Leica claimed for several years that a "digital rangefinder" was not possible. Until the market drove them (the lazy bums!) to make the extra effort required (lens coding, extra firmware corrections) to use their classic film-oriented short-focus lens designs on silicon.

 

Yes, you need a coded lens, or at least a profile applied via the camera menu. Which artificially adds back green in a "known" region of the picture to cancel out the purple, before writing the picture to your SD card.

 

As the others say, the profile for the non-ASPH Leica 21mm lens is the most powerful "medicine" available for super-wide lenses, in the cameras' menu list of profiles/lens IDs. If that can't remove or minimize it, nothing can (outside of tedious post-processing per picture).

 

Your staining looks approximately like the stain pattern I got with the M9 and its first (too weak) 2009 lens profile when using that 21 - later improved with updated firmware. So using the current setting will probably remove most of the stain.

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Thanks, that's quite disappointing as I'm bound to forget to change profiles between lenses. I think I'll look to return it and look at other options.

 

Or, use the free Cornerfix application to correct the effect; or use the Lightroom flat field plug-in

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Jean-Michel beat me to it: https://sites.google.com/site/cornerfix/

 

If you are considering substitute lenses, Cosina/Voigtlander redesigned their M-mount 15mm (which produced horrible purple edges in the tiny version I introduced 1998) to have more SLR-like optics in the recent version III, and it produces no colored edges that I could see - without any coding or lens ID from the menus needed. C/V also now makes a 10mm that avoids the problem optically.

 

The Leica 18 and 16-18-21 are, of course, physically coded and recognized and corrected for by the camera.

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Thanks, that's quite disappointing as I'm bound to forget to change profiles between lenses. I think I'll look to return it and look at other options.

 

I will second the manual coding and re-coding of lenses as you are out shooting is a royal PITA. There were times I went all day and never changed a code, winding up with whole folders of images coded as having been captured with a 90mm f2 Summicron when maybe I used it for the first 3-4 images and different lenses for the next 100....

 

I finally succumbed when the manual coding I did of the non-coded lenses could not be read by my new M262 like they were by the M9, sending the 90 Summicron to Leica to have it coded, sent a 21mm f2.8 Elmarit ASPH to DAG for him to code, and purchased a mint second-hand 18mm f3.8 Super Elmar to cover the super wide view.

 

L1012036-X2.jpg

 

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L1014195-X2.jpg

Edited by Gregm61
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That brings up another approach - but it means a camera upgrade.

 

IF you have only one uncoded lens, the M10 firmware allows you to set the lens recognition to manual, set for that lens (or the closest Leica equivalent). But the camera will automatically sense the mounting of a coded lens, and change to "auto-detect" mode, and use the correct settings, and then back to the manual choice when it detects an uncoded lens.

 

Unfortunately, like Greg, I had 4 uncoded lenses. So had to swap my 35 Summicron v.4 for a coded modern 35 ASPH, my 90 pre-APO Summicron for a coded 90 Summarit (both used, and thus for a net cost lower than getting two lenses coded), and ignore my 50 Summicron DR (which would not show edge stains anyway - not that wide).

 

Now, my M10 is always set to manual recognition for my 1967 135 TE. If I mount any coded lens (21, 35, 90), it automatically recognizes those and switches to their profiles and ID. When the 135 or 50 are mounted, it records both/either as the 135 (no big deal, image-wise). It's pretty obvious whether a 50 or a 135 actually took the picture.

 

If I am going to do a long session dedicated to the 50 for close-up work, I have the time to reset the manual recognition to "50mm" if I prefer (solely for correct EXIF labelling) - and then remember to change it back to "135" for general use.

Edited by adan
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That's a cool trick for the M10 adan. Even better reason to continue down the path that'll probably take me until next year this time to be in a position to nab an M10, which may be about when they start appearing in general stock, LOL...

 

The one uncoded lens I continue to use is a 135mm f4 Tele Elmar of about the same time frame as yours. I elect to just leave it as "uncoded" when I use it with my M262 or M9P.

Edited by Gregm61
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The M10 really doesn't interest me in the slightest. I recently picked up an MP240 and love it, so I'll just go for different lens options instead. Is there any way of coding a Zeiss to even the 21mm Leica data for example, or is it not at all possible? 

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I had multiple lenses coded manually using the coder kit that was being sold on the internet by Match Technical, some of them un-coded Leica lenses and a 21mm f1.8 Voigtlander Ultron.

 

With the M262 Leica seems to have "defeated" the manual coding systems as it reads none of the non-Leica codings I was using with no problem on the M9.

 

Last time I checked, Match Technical was no longer selling the coding kit, a pretty good indication they do not work with the newer bodies.

Edited by Gregm61
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I had multiple lenses coded manually using the coder kit that was being sold on the internet by Match Technical, some of them un-coded Leica lenses and a 21mm f1.8 Voigtlander Ultron.

 

With the M262 Leica seems to have "defeated" the manual coding systems as it reads none of the non-Leica codings I was using with no problem on the M9.

 

Last time I checked, Match Technical was no longer selling the coding kit, a pretty good indication they do not work with the newer bodies.

 

That's a shame as I just realised the SEM 18mm has a poor ability when it comes to filters, requiring very slim CPLs etc in 77mm size when fitted to a thread mount. The Zeiss is easily good enough for my needs but it's frustrating to have to set the profile that's all. It wouldn't be so bad if there was some kind of quick menu option I guess.

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With the M262 Leica seems to have "defeated" the manual coding systems as it reads none of the non-Leica codings I was using with no problem on the M9.

 

Yep - same for the M10. I had home-made Sharpie-pen codes on my 35 and 90 that the M9 recognized, and the M10 doesn't. Of course, the M8/9 6-bit sensors were pushovers - they ID'd almost any 90 as the "90mm Tele-Elmarit-M II" - IF the correct screwhead on the mount was dirty, and read as a single 6-bit black dot in just the right place. It was a nice "undocumented feature" for 10 years of using 90s - at least the right focal length appeared in the EXIF. ;)

 

But also occasionally recognized a 28mm (same frameline set ) as a "90 TE" - and the profile mismatch then created cyan edges using the 28, similar to (but less intense, and broader than) w44neg's purple stains.

 

Which would make the M10 trick unworkable (and in fact the M10 occasionally read my self-coded 90 as a 35 f/1.4 (!!) before it quit reading it at all). The logic that allows the new M10 trick depends on the 6-bit reader being much more picky about whether a lens mount is really coded - or just smudged.

 

w44neg - it is probably possible to find a 3rd-party tech who will take your Zeiss lens, and machine the coding pits into the mount, and paint them in the black-white pattern that matches either the Leica 18mm code - or some other code that may work better (not all 18mms will produce the same purple stain pattern - depends on the details of the optical formulas - and thus Leica's own 18mm profile/corrections for their 18mm may not be the best match for the Zeiss 18mm).

 

I've never used the services, but there are a couple well-thought-of. Not sure which provide 6-bit coding work.

 

http://www.sherrykrauter.com/

 

http://www.dagcamera.com/contact.html (for some reason DAG only has a web site for parts - but he does do servicing as well, thus I linked to his contact page)

 

If the 18 Zeiss is truly perfect for your needs otherwise, it's probably worth getting it coded.

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DAG will mill the divots for coding.  If a screw prevents the coding, he plug the screw hole so it can be milled.  If needed, then drill a new hole elsewhere and re-home the screw (so to speak).  I've had Don this on several lenses, and I think the cost was ~$200 USD.

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  • 2 years later...

For the Zeiss 4/18mm ZM, Zeiss.de recommends setting your M240 on "Elmarit-M 24mm f/2.8 ASPH." I've found that being a good setting to remove the purple-fringing and reduce vignetting... that is mostly prevalent when lens is open. Setting your M240 to "Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8" I think removes it even better.

Setting your M240 on "Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.4 ASPH" with the ZM 4/18mm is not possible (since it doesn't appear in the lens selection), unless you modify the frame selector flange to pull up the 50/70 frame and of course code it to 110100. I didn't think this improved the image and neither when I tried the WATE settings.

Another lens: Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15mm produces severe fringing fully open on an M240. I found that the "Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8" setting works best. Also set it to classic metering, LV off and no Center Filter on lens. I think Advanced Metering setting and/or CF amplifies the vignetting and thus the fringing out to the corners.

Advice from Zeiss.de was to try to find the best lens profile for your lens so that most of the processing is done "in-camera" and the use plug-in or apps to fine tune your picture. I found this saves time and improves the results.

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