R3D-D0T Posted April 9, 2017 Share #1 Posted April 9, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Topic Title Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 Hi R3D-D0T, Take a look here Leica M10 or Monochrom 2?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stef63 Posted April 9, 2017 Share #2 Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) Topic TitleEasy. If you want to take color photographs only I would suggest the M10. The M246 is not good at color photographs. If you want to take B&W photograps only the M246 is the better cam. If you want to take a mixture of B&W and color then again the M10 is for obvious reasons the better cam. BTW I sold my M246 and M240 and replaced them by an M10. Let's see what the Monochrom v3 will bring. Edited April 9, 2017 by Stef63 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 9, 2017 Share #3 Posted April 9, 2017 If someone asks such a question, the impression is that he might not understood the different technologies of these two cameras yet. Would a question at all thinkable like: "Should I take for my analog Leica a color film or a black and white film?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonzo Posted April 9, 2017 Share #4 Posted April 9, 2017 The M10 is capable of taking excellent b/w pictures, the only thing you must do is to convert the color pictures. Only at high ISO the M246 has an advantage over the M10. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 9, 2017 Share #5 Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) Black & White is color without hue. Is that mysterious enough? Look at it this way: for sophisticated control of B&W tones, usually we want to control how certain hues (colors) are rendered. For a monochrome media that means choosing colored filters to place over the lens. What you get depends upon how well you know colors, and for the most part the color interpretations are done in-camera. You are done with modulating colors with the click of the camera. Done! If you begin with a color medium such as an M10, your outcome in-camera can be modified as B&W after the fact by simulated color filtration, and most important - you can experiment with filters as often as you like. The final outcome is what you wish anytime you wish, changes are convenient. If you master post-processing software you can do color interpretations not possible with a monochrome media and color filters over the lens - for example using two different color filters which would not work with physical filters. For example, a red and blue filter (however unlikely) using post-processing masks to change selective scene areas with each filter. So, my answer for B&W is M10. Edited April 9, 2017 by pico 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted April 9, 2017 If someone asks such a question, the impression is that he might not understood the different technologies of these two cameras yet. Would a question at all thinkable like: "Should I take for my analog Leica a color film or a black and white film?" well i love black and white, but don't really shoot at high ISO which seems to be the big difference between the two. is there more to it that im missing here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted April 9, 2017 Share #7 Posted April 9, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think there may be a deeper, almost purist/connective, point here. The M246 reads light - directly. More light = white, less light = black. I am not a marketing person but there is something to be said about how the nostalgic side of our photography and the purist side combine to build some kind of romantic attachment to the concept. That is all different and in addition to the practicalities of B&W sensor v post processing options. Me? Am an SL owner and currently torn between an M10 or M246.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olgierdc Posted April 9, 2017 Share #8 Posted April 9, 2017 Leica M10 ISO 40000. Noise reduction was applied. If we do not need to print in A2 format, the quality is sufficient. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271185-leica-m10-or-monochrom-2/?do=findComment&comment=3251511'>More sharing options...
pico Posted April 9, 2017 Share #9 Posted April 9, 2017 well i love black and white, but don't really shoot at high ISO which seems to be the big difference between the two. is there more to it that im missing here? Read my post, and if there is something I have not made clear I will try again. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3D-D0T Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share #10 Posted April 9, 2017 Read my post, and if there is something I have not made clear I will try again. . yeah what's with the "base" ISO of the MM2? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 9, 2017 Share #11 Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) Related article, with the both Monochroms and M240.... http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/06/bw-iso-showdown-leica-m-monochrom-typ-246-vs-m-monochrom-m9-vs-m-typ-240/ I expect the M10 to fare as well or better than the already excellent M240. Jeff Edited April 9, 2017 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 9, 2017 Share #12 Posted April 9, 2017 Leica M10 ISO 40000. Noise reduction was applied. If we do not need to print in A2 format, the quality is sufficient. Beautiful but a bit bland ... very little midtone separation I will take this any day High iso does not improve poor light ... Bob Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271185-leica-m10-or-monochrom-2/?do=findComment&comment=3251633'>More sharing options...
cldp Posted April 9, 2017 Share #13 Posted April 9, 2017 I tested my M10 against the M246 (same lens on both) and found that from 1200 ISO and higher, the Monochrom2 was considerably better: much sharper pictures with far less noise. There were differences at lower ISO's as well, but not deal busters. The M10 conversion was done in Adobe Camera Raw with no other corrections, the Mono was opened straight into Photoshop, also no corrections. If you process everything to B&W, the Mono2 is the way to go, at least until the M10 based Mono3 comes along. Soon, please (if Leica is listening). The way the M10 works in your hands is delightfully intuitive, brilliantly designed for serious, traditional photographers. If you shoot any color, you have to go with the M10 (or you might be convinced you need them both). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 10, 2017 Share #14 Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) yeah what's with the "base" ISO of the MM2? If you are going to control color tones, then on an MM you must use filters which impose a loss of light, thus lower ISO, just as it works with B&W film. Converting to B&W on an M10 has no such disadvantage. Edited April 10, 2017 by pico 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2017 Share #15 Posted April 10, 2017 Base on the MM1 200 Base on M246 320 Filter factor will affect exposure ... and at this level on a tripod with 2 sec delay .... not an issue. But you can expose at 5000 with little loss in DR or acuity ... so spontaneous shooting is an option. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted April 10, 2017 Share #16 Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) If one is only going to shoot BW, the 246 seems the obvious choice. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/02/comparing-the-leica-monochrom-to-a-sony-a7r-ii/ In that little comparison it's as least equal to the 42mp A7rii. I very much doubt the M10 could go head to head in the same way with the r2, which is not to say the r2 is a "better" camera. 24mp vs 42mp is a big difference in terms of resolving tiny details. Not as much as the numerical relationships since you do get additional noise, but the r2 can show alot of detail. I don't see how anyone can think the M10, with all it's color infrastructure, is going to give the same level of detail as the 246. Any test which shows it does is highly suspect. Just shoot a nice long infinity scene, and the difference should show up in crops. But maybe there is some magical technical aspect of the M10 sensor I'm missing? Many consider the Sony BSI the most advanced FF sensor we have right now, but I'd love to have that corrected, if it's not accurate. Again, I'm only considering the sensors and what images they can produce. Other aspects of the Sony are problematic for many, I understand. Edited April 10, 2017 by uhoh7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDOC Posted April 14, 2017 Share #17 Posted April 14, 2017 I own a 1st generation Monochrom and I had considered getting a 246, but I was not impressed at all by its image quality. The original Monochrom produces very crisp and snappy images. By comparison, the images from the 246 look like mush to me. Granted, the earlier Monochrom has its limitations--so-so dynamic range and marginal high ISO capability. But at its best it runs circles around the 246's best. The M10, on the other hand, is a far better monochrome camera than the 246, IMO. The images have excellent dynamic range and contrast. And even though you're converting from color to B&W, it still beats the 246 Monochrom by a wide margin. Plus you get to shoot color with it, should you ever get the urge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted April 14, 2017 Share #18 Posted April 14, 2017 If you want to make huge (I mean huge) prints, then the MM246 might be a better bet than the M10, because of the lack of the Bayer filter and all that implies. On the other hand I'd be seriously astonished if anyone could tell the difference on an A1 sized print with respect to detail . . . . And then, as Pico points out, with the M10 and converting to black and white you can add colour filter effects in post processing (which you certainly can't do with the MM246) . . . .and then, unless you're really interested in battery life, the M10 is a much better camera in almost every respect. For me - unless you're going to use colour filters, and you aren't into post processing, you want to print bigger than A1and you never shoot colour . . The M10 is a better option . . But if all the above is true, then the MM246 is a no brainer! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 14, 2017 Share #19 Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) For fine printing, I find that PP is critical for ANY camera; it's just the workflow that varies. Unless NDOC had a malfunctioning camera, no M246 should have files that end up as "mush". And I agree with Jono's assessment, except for the notion that MM cameras are better suited to folks who "aren't into PP". Use of color channels is but one of myriad potential PP actions. At least that's my print experience.... film or digital. Jeff Edited April 14, 2017 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 14, 2017 Share #20 Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) If one is only going to shoot BW, the 246 seems the obvious choice. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/02/comparing-the-leica-monochrom-to-a-sony-a7r-ii/ In that little comparison it's as least equal to the 42mp A7rii. I very much doubt the M10 could go head to head in the same way with the r2 [...] maybe there is some magical technical aspect of the M10 sensor I'm missing? [...] I appreciate your provocative posts. It keeps my attention. Repeating myself - resolution is not as important as rendering qualities. I will stop there for the moment because my broke tramp cheap neighbor wants to borrow my computer. Edited April 14, 2017 by pico Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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