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Off camera HSS


jto555

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Has anybody tried the Priolite flash with their Leica S? I am using M240s, so if the flash works for the S then it should work for the M.

 

I just came across an article on the Fstoppers website (https://fstoppers.co...-strobes-171780) and it does mention HSS with Leica. A bit of research turned up a cached webpage where it does mention Leica - https://webcache.goo...b&hl=en&ct=clnk but I cannot fine a current webpage  where they mention Leica. I also have sent an email to Priolite for clafaration and I am waiting for a response.

 

So, has anybody an experence with this flash and does it work for off camera HSS?

 

 

Update: I just found this page: http://priolite.lighting/control-a-hot-sync-leica/

 

It looks like YES!!! But the transmitter has not been released yet.

Edited by jto555
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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, one of the strength of the S system: CS! For the non CS lenses owners: there are rumours telling that Leica will have a new flash solution/ firmware supporting off camera HSS. See german section, thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271214-frühlingsfest-bei-calumet/

 

 

I sincerely hope that their "flash solution" will be a Profoto Air-TTL trigger, and not some half-assed proprietary system co-developed with bankrupt Metz. Being able to use the CS lenses in TTL mode on location, with a B1 or B2 head would be real added value for a lot of people at whom the S system is targeted (e.g. wedding).

Alternatively (and even better) a firmware update making all Leica cameras compatible with Nikon TTL/HSS flash (the physical layout of the hotshoe contacts is the same, after all...so it should be just a question of FW). If Hasselblad can do this with the X1D, perhaps Leica could also join one of the industry standard flash protocols instead of reinventing the wheel (of course, a double-than-usual-priced-otherwise-the-same wheel, as usual in Leica's case).

Edited by albireo_double
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Don't necessarily need HSS (have 3 CS lenses) but TTL with Profoto B1/B2 would be handy (I know my comment is a little off topic but there are a bunch of radio triggers for other brands out there today, that do both HSS and TTL, so I think it would be reasonable to get both functions from whatever solution Leica are working on).

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Don't CS lenses max out at 1/500 for flash sync? That'd only be a two stop gain over the focal plane shutter. The Priolite hot sync allows speeds up to the cameras max shutter speed 1/8000 which is another 4 stops over CS, 6 full stops over focal plane

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1/1000 for Leica CS lenses and 1/750 for Hasselblad H lenses with Adapter. 

 

1/500 was the original goal by Leica before they released the CS lenses, they stretched it one stop further. 

 

Don't CS lenses max out at 1/500 for flash sync? 

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The Leica S maximum focal plane shutter is 1/4000 so:

 

1/1000 is 2 stops slower than it's maximum speed

 

which is 3 stops faster than the focal plane shutter.

 

Meaning with HSS you could only increase 2 more stops. In my opinion 1/1000 is more than fast enough, especially when you count in the power loss when using HSS. 

 

So in short the maximum gain with HSS compared to Leica's CS lenses is 2 stops. 

 

The Priolite hot sync allows speeds up to the cameras max shutter speed 1/8000 which is another 4 stops over CS, 6 full stops over focal plane

Edited by jip
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My lenses are CS, but I use the zoom lens quite often, sometimes with flash. Funny that in exactly those situations I would welcome a faster sync speed.

So yes, HSS would be nice, though I don't have the corresponding flashes, only Profoto B4 and 8a, so this all makes not much sense to me :)

Maybe a CS zoom? Please?

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Maybe a CS zoom? Please?

I use a Hasselblad HC 50-110mm Zoom, it's a central shutter lens and it can be obtained relatively cheap second hand. For me it's very useful and I like its range.

 

There is a wider Hasselblad Zoom the HCD 35-90mm. It's a more recent lens and some people like it on the Leica S. I have no experience with this lens.

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You have to be careful with HSS and the CS lenses ... not all tranmitters will do 1/1000 sync. Even with Profoto AIR, you have to manually set the AIR sender to the "Speed" setting ... otherwise 1/500th is the top sync speed. Plus, some strobes used at full power have a flash duration under 1/1000. 

 

The SF58 is always set on HSS or it will not work on a S camera. It will sync at any shutter speed even with non CS lenses (not sure, but I believe HSS kicks in above 1/125 shutter). The downside is that it is a weak source when used HSS and has to be used on-camera, which is why there is a demand for more powerful strobes featuring HSS to use off-camera. The light is still pulsed with HSS strobes, but there is a lot more of light to start with (speed-light = approx. 70 W/s ... Strobes = 250, 400, or 500 W/s).

 

Unfortunately, Canon, Nikon and now Sony get all the HSS/TTL strobe attention (for obvious reasons). Recently, Profoto finally introduced the HSS/TTL AIR sender for Sony (as did Elinchrom). This new AIR sender works with the battery driven B1, B2 (requiring a firmware update for each light), and the new D2 studio light. It does not work with the D1s or older lights like the 600B AIR and never will. 

 

The Sony/Nikon/Canon advantage is that you can use up to max shutter speed (1/8000) with fast aperture lenses (like a Sony FE-85/1.4G) ... allowing f/1.4 if you wish ... with a high shutter speed to control the ambient background in back lit situations. That would be a very nice feature to have with the non CS Leica S-100/2. The newer HSS strobe systems coming on line recently hold promise especially if you do not have CS lenses. It remains to be seen how reliable they are ... my experience with other cameras already covered by these new lights has not been all that great ... but here is hoping! 

 

Like many here, 1/1000 sync has been fine in almost every situation ... and with a powerful enough strobe you can over-power the sun. I use a Profoto 600B AIR or Hensel Porty 1200L for that type of need (the Hensel comes with 3 different radio receivers built-in, and one of them is Profoto AIR).

 

Leica has always been retarded when it comes to lighting ... probably a result of their heritage of ambient light photography. For the R and then S, they partnered with Braun and Metz which are complex and hard to work with in specialized lighting cases. Hasselblad's recent adoption of the Nikon flash protocols was a smart move IMHO ... plus, the new lenses and newer versions of the HC lenses now sync to 1/2000 ... I wonder if the the H to S adapter would allow HSS @ 1/2000?

 

- Marc   

 

 

 

 

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The Leica S maximum focal plane shutter is 1/4000 so:

 

1/1000 is 2 stops slower than it's maximum speed

 

which is 3 stops faster than the focal plane shutter.

 

Meaning with HSS you could only increase 2 more stops. In my opinion 1/1000 is more than fast enough, especially when you count in the power loss when using HSS. 

 

So in short the maximum gain with HSS compared to Leica's CS lenses is 2 stops. 

 

The Priolite Hot Sync strobes were also designed for the SL which has a 1/8000 max shutter. You are correct about the difference in stops (2) but this often can make be the difference between getting the shot you really want and settling for what your equipment will allow you to get. One thing I don't think you are considering is the ability to freeze action, 1/1000 is a far cry from 1/4000 in this regard if that is something that is important. Also, the technology used in these strobes is not HSS which is a pulsing of the strobe which leads to lower power output, Priolite uses Hot Sync which is a long flash duration perfectly timed to the shutter of the camera which does not cause a loss in power.

Edited by Priolite
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Also, the technology used in these strobes is not HSS which is a pulsing of the strobe which leads to lower power output, Priolite uses Hot Sync which is a long flash duration perfectly timed to the shutter of the camera which does not cause a loss in power.

 

 

Thats good to know, nice. 

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The Priolite Hot Sync strobes were also designed for the SL which has a 1/8000 max shutter. You are correct about the difference in stops (2) but this often can make be the difference between getting the shot you really want and settling for what your equipment will allow you to get. One thing I don't think you are considering is the ability to freeze action, 1/1000 is a far cry from 1/4000 in this regard if that is something that is important. Also, the technology used in these strobes is not HSS which is a pulsing of the strobe which leads to lower power output, Priolite uses Hot Sync which is a long flash duration perfectly timed to the shutter of the camera which does not cause a loss in power.

 

Do they work like that with any of the S range cameras?

 

john

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I do use HSS with my SF-58 on and off camera (with a long cable) with Contax 645 lenses... 

 

Hello jip

Very interesting. What cable do you use to sync your SF-58? I know that the Nikon cables should work as they have the same layout, but I have never tried. Thank you in advance and

kind regards

Swiss Leica Fan

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Hello jip

Very interesting. What cable do you use to sync your SF-58? I know that the Nikon cables should work as they have the same layout, but I have never tried. Thank you in advance and

kind regards

Swiss Leica Fan

 

 

Yes a Chinese brand 'telephone cable like' (the curly sort) said to be compatible for Nikon. 

Edited by jip
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