M10 with Phase 1, C1 RAW processor {merged}

[dasjak]

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Hi all,

 

I am eagerly waiting for an update to C1 Pro with support for the M10. I never really paid much attention as to how long it usually takes to have a new camera added to the software.

Does anybody have any knowledge of this (or waiting times experience?) ?

 

Thanks,

Andreas

[Soden]

Well, there is no offical support for the M246. C1 is very slow in supporting for Leica cameras as they see Leica as a competitor (Think S). 

 

What I do is I try it... Then create my own profile until an offical one is released, up to 6 months later. Often I prefer my own profile anyway.

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[fatihayoglu]

Hi all,

 

I am eagerly waiting for an update to C1 Pro with support for the M10. I never really paid much attention as to how long it usually takes to have a new camera added to the software.

Does anybody have any knowledge of this (or waiting times experience?) ?

 

Thanks,

Andreas

 

I'd fill a support ticket. The more support ticket they receive, the faster they support. Like Fuji X100F has been supported very quickly as there was a demand. My understading is that they will have a closer working relationship with Leica, as I have read somewhere on the forum.

 

PS I have filled a support ticket for M10, 50LuxASPH and 35cron ASPH and 90Cron ASPH, as hopefully soon I'll get my camera and acquired the lenses as 2nd hand already.

[Robert Q Wong Jr.]

I'd fill a support ticket. The more support ticket they receive, the faster they support. Like Fuji X100F has been supported very quickly as there was a demand. My understading is that they will have a closer working relationship with Leica, as I have read somewhere on the forum.

 

PS I have filled a support ticket for M10, 50LuxASPH and 35cron ASPH and 90Cron ASPH, as hopefully soon I'll get my camera and acquired the lenses as 2nd hand already.

For what it's worth, I wrote them about a month ago asking for an M10 profile. I was very politely informed that it's NOT in the pipeline.

 

I'm a long time customer of both C1 & Leica, so any act that inconveniences their mutual customers is ridiculous.

 

If anyone knows how to create a C1 profile, or is willing to share one they created, many thanks in advance.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[fatihayoglu]

For what it's worth, I wrote them about a month ago asking for an M10 profile. I was very politely informed that it's NOT in the pipeline.

 

I'm a long time customer of both C1 & Leica, so any act that inconveniences their mutual customers is ridiculous.

 

If anyone knows how to create a C1 profile, or is willing to share one they created, many thanks in advance.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=25342&p=118594&hilit=m10#p118594

 

According to this, somebody got a response from Leica regarding to the support. The problem with C1 is, they need the camera in house to create a profile, while other RAW convertors don't need. To get a camera in house, the manufacturer needs to provide one. We might need to chase Leica for this as well. While back, every M camera used to come with C1Pro as far as I know.

[jaapv]

Basically, lending, buying or borrowing a camera to adjust software is the responsibilty of the maker of that software. Leica cannot be expected to send free cameras all over the place to developers of raw converters. What is the problem in buying a camera, using it a few days and selling it again at a 500$ loss?

 

I find the whole situation rather childish. Don't forget that this is the company that dropped the support and development of the DMR like a hot potato when they felt like it, despite being the makers of the thing. Leica has no reason to extend them any courtesy.

[fatihayoglu]

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Basically, lending, buying or borrowing a camera to adjust software is the responsibilty of the maker of that software. Leica cannot be expected to send free cameras all over the place to developers of raw converters. What is the problem in buying a camera, using it a few days and selling it again at a 500$ loss?

 

I find the whole situation rather childish. Don't forget that this is the company that dropped the support and development of the DMR like a hot potato when they felt like it, despite being the makers of the thing. Leica has no reason to extend them any courtesy.

 

Jaap, I am not working for C1P, just telling what I have been told before. They say they need to get a camera in house to create a profile. To do that, they need the camera either before or after it's been released. And I know some camera companies work with C1P closer as their products are getting supported very quickly. Just as an example, Fuji X100F is supported even before it was released. So that means Fuji send a camera for the profile. There is a talk about the fact that C1P colors are better than LR for especially Fuji cameras so maybe C1P see this as a market now.

[Stonewall Brigade]

Jaap, I am not working for C1P, just telling what I have been told before. They say they need to get a camera in house to create a profile. To do that, they need the camera either before or after it's been released. And I know some camera companies work with C1P closer as their products are getting supported very quickly. Just as an example, Fuji X100F is supported even before it was released. So that means Fuji send a camera for the profile. There is a talk about the fact that C1P colors are better than LR for especially Fuji cameras so maybe C1P see this as a market now.

I think the problem with C1 not readily updating Leica camera profiles is Leica's partnership with a major competitor - Adobe Lightroom.  Difficult for me to think that a European-based photography software company - Phase One - cannot find a Leica camera.  I also filed a tech support request for the Leica (TYP 262) to be supported.  Hasn't happended so far.

 

Also, C1 users, and especially Apple iMac owners,. know about C1's disaterous roll out of the new version Pro 10.0  The huge memory drains and computer seizes are well-documented on the discussion forum. It appears that subsequent updates to Pro 10.0 have not fixed the problem.  many customers, like me, still use Pro 9.3 and won't pay to upgrade. A big disapointment is C1's lack of acknowledgement about the problem.

 

Ironic that today I received this e-mail:

 

From: Gitte Maj Nielsen <gmn@phaseone.com>

Date: March 14, 2017 at 5:58:40 AM EDT

To: Gitte Maj Nielsen <gmn@phaseone.com>

Subject: We need your help

 

Dear photographer,

 

A while back you participated in a survey about your satisfaction with Capture One.

We were very grateful for your feedback and happy to see that so many of you use Capture One as an integral part of your workflow.

 

We are now ready for launching Capture One on Amazon.com and we are looking for US photographers, who would be up for writing a review on Amazon.com

 

https://www.amazon.com/Capture-One-Pro-10-Download/dp/B01NCIXEN7/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488449324&sr=8-1&keywords=capture+one+pro+10

 

If you would be up for supporting us in spreading the word about Capture One, we would very much appreciate it.

 

Thank you very much and all the best,

 

Gitte Maj Nielsen

Sales Relations Manager

 


 


Mobile +45 2888 6997

E-Mail: gmn@phaseone.com

 


www.phaseone.com 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Stonewall Brigade

[scott kirkpatrick]

I've been running C1 10.0 (currently 10.0.2) without any of the problems you describe.  I use it for Olympus, Fuji, Leica M and SL.  It will process M10 files, although I don't have my own M10 yet to try it extensively.  When the SL was new, C1 did not recognize SL files, so having their code at least recognize the files is a step ahead, as they have in the past refused to process files from a new camera until they have created their own profiles.  The results with the M10 samples that I have tried look good.

 

Leica has contributed to the problem by loading up their DNG files with Adobe templates, which are of no use to other software toolmakers, and by leaving critical adjustment information in the proprietary files that you will only find in a licensed copy of ACR or LightRoom.  Much of that information was conveyed in the DNGs created by an SL.

 

scott

[6bit]

I am also a paid user of C1 v10. C1 is putting out a photo editor. They need to get their @$$ in gear and get the profiles out. It is on them and not Leica. Leica could certainly choose to help them but it is on C1. I don't have my M10 yet so I am not inconvenienced but when I do get it and the profiles are not there it will be an issue. C1 always finds a way to push me further and further away. My main workflow is Adobe LR and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Very disappointed in C1 support because I paid money for a service. Three versions now!

[wlaidlaw]

C1 and Leica have some sort of childish ongoing hissy fit between them, which does both groups of their customers no favours at all. They need to start behaving like grown ups, get round a table and sort it out. For the M240 and SL, a customer and a dealer had to lend Phase One their own cameras to get the profiles made. Not very professional. Whereas I like the software, I am increasingly irritated by the absence of a customer-centric approach by Phase One. When I dared to criticise the continuing and disappointing absence of a haze removal tool on C1 V.10 Pro on their forum, you would have thought I was bad mouthing their parents, from the extreme reaction. 

 

Wilson

[olgierdc]

I gave up with C1. Lightroom is the king (not to much rich, but the only one in the town).

I asked the company. No answer ...

[Jager]

Phase One has been very clear in recent years that C1 is a closed, proprietary product.  They like to point to it as the "secret sauce" (their words) that make their uber expensive (you thought Leica's were expensive!) medium format platforms so desirable.  They explicitly do not support Hasselblad.  And ever since the introduction of the S I imagine they're not so keen on Leica, either, given the latter's encroachment on their turf.

 

To the extent that they support non-competitive formats from 35mm manufacturers... that is a very, very secondary concern for them.  "We'll get to it, maybe..." is likely their operating principle.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Jager

[UliWer]

After all...I do not really know what I should miss with C1 when I use the M10.

 

The only difference I noticed yet was that I do not see previews before I load the content of a SD Card to C1. With LR I see them in advance and can better choose if I don't want to upload everything. 

 

Of course there always have been some differences in UI, workflow etc between the two softwares. IMO in many cases the results from C1 have the edge over LR. With the M10 I didn't see anything which changes this approach - even if the camera is not "supported" 

[wlaidlaw]

After all...I do not really know what I should miss with C1 when I use the M10.

 

The only difference I noticed yet was that I do not see previews before I load the content of a SD Card to C1. With LR I see them in advance and can better choose if I don't want to upload everything. 

 

Of course there always have been some differences in UI, workflow etc between the two softwares. IMO in many cases the results from C1 have the edge over LR. With the M10 I didn't see anything which changes this approach - even if the camera is not "supported" 

 

You should still see the previews in the import window on C1. The camera profile is only applied after import. I am using the latest version of C1 10.0.2 and I certainly see previews with selection boxes, before importing with cards from the SL and M240. 

 

Wilson

[JWW]

I'm using the latest C1 but I do not see previews when I do a M10 SD import.  With the M240, the previews are there.

[Cliff S]

I get partial previews. Maybe 20% of the images.

[wlaidlaw]

I think this must be a bug and not to do with the missing camera profile. Have you reported this via the C1 bug reporter system. I know this is a bit buried inside their website but in the past, I have always had a pretty rapid response to any bugs or problems I have reported, over the 13 years I have been a Capture One user. One thing to check is the variant of DNG that the M10 is creating.

 

There is a DNG validation tool utility somewhere on Adobe's website to do this. If the M10 is using a later version of the DNG file format than the SL or M240 is using and Phase One have not updated their software to display the thumbnails from this latest variant of DNG, that would explain the lack of images on the import window. It would be worth checking this before reporting to Phase One. I would think Phase One would be happy to update this, as the information would come from Adobe and is, like all the DNG information, open format. Cameras other than Leica may well update their firmware to use the latest DNG file format. Against all the foregoing is that from what Google tells me, the latest DNG version is 1.4.0.0, dating from as far back as 2012, so unless Leica have gone off at a tangent and is using a non standard DNG thumbnail format (always possible) the DNG format should be the same as the M240 and SL. My SL is writing 1.4.0.0 DNG files.

 

Forum member Sandy has analysed the M10 DNG files here http://chromasoft.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/leica-m10-raw-file-dng-analysis.html . If you search on his Blog, there is quite a bit more information on the M10 DNG's and a utility to clean them up. 

 

Someone may need to offer to lend Phase One an M10 before the profile gets written. Is there a Danish Leica shop, who you could contact, to suggest that they might lend Phase One their demo M10 for a few days? With the SL, I think it was a forum member Scott Fitzpatrick, who lent Phase One his personal camera, to get the profile written. 

 

Wilson

[Stef63]

 

Someone may need to offer to lend Phase One an M10 before the profile gets written. Is there a Danish Leica shop, who you could contact, to suggest that they might lend Phase One their demo M10 for a few days? With the SL, I think it was a forum member Scott Fitzpatrick, who lent Phase One his personal camera, to get the profile written. 

 

Seriously?

 

I would expect from a one-man-company like Leicatime to lend a customers M10 to design a case for this new camera.  But Phase One ?  Even Luigi has his M10 cases available right now.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Stef63

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[wlaidlaw]

Seriously?

 

I would expect from a one-man-company like Leicatime to lend a customers M10 to design a case for this new camera.  But Phase One ?  Even Luigi has his M10 cases available right now.

 

The difference is that Luigi is on good terms with Leica, Phase One isn't. Childish is how I would describe it.