Guest JMF Posted March 22, 2017 Share #1 Posted March 22, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I would like to know if anyone has had curtain problems on their M6 TTL cameras leading to uneven exposure accross the frame or locally in the frame , visible at the high shutter speeds of 1/500 and 1/1000 ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 Hi Guest JMF, Take a look here Curtain problem on M6TTL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted March 23, 2017 Share #2 Posted March 23, 2017 Is there any consistent pattern to the uneven exposure? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 23, 2017 Share #3 Posted March 23, 2017 Problems are usually due to shutter bounce whereby you get a strip that's overexposed at one end of the frame, or dirt/fluff on the edge of one of the shutter curtains which leave streaks across the frame. Post an example of one of your problem photos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted March 23, 2017 Share #4 Posted March 23, 2017 Hi, I would like to know if anyone has had curtain problems on their M6 TTL cameras leading to uneven exposure accross the frame or locally in the frame , visible at the high shutter speeds of 1/500 and 1/1000 ? Yes, these problems are known, especially with the M6TTL. I had exactly the same problems with my then new M6TTL, and Leica was not able to fully fix them under warranty. So I got an M7 in exchange (could have opted for an MP, too). That said, the problem may be fixed in some or even most cases by adjusting the shutter. A lot of use seems to help, too. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted March 23, 2017 Share #5 Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) Is there any consistent pattern to the uneven exposure? Thanks a lot for your answers. No, it is uneven and underexposing . Please see the 3 attached photos from 2 different rolls and different 35mm lenses + situations taken on the same camera, a M6 TTL Millenium. So far Leica is has given me via my Leica dealer an offer which I don't find satisfying . They offer to carry on an expensive repair of over 1k euros without giving any future warranty or an exchange for an M7 at my charge (no price given). It seems that it is a known issue from a manufacturing problem . Thanks, Jean-Marc. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 23, 2017 by JMF Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270627-curtain-problem-on-m6ttl/?do=findComment&comment=3240007'>More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 23, 2017 Share #6 Posted March 23, 2017 So far Leica is has given me via my Leica dealer an offer which I don't find satisfying . They offer to carry on an expensive repair of over 1k euros without giving any future warranty or an exchange for an M7 at my charge (no price given). It seems that it is a known issue from a manufacturing problem . That's disappointing to hear. Do you know what the nature of the problem is and why it might be peculiar to the M6TTL? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted March 23, 2017 Share #7 Posted March 23, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) That's disappointing to hear. Do you know what the nature of the problem is and why it might be peculiar to the M6TTL? No idea about the nature of the problem. If it is peculiar to the M6 TTL, that is what I am trying to figure out but it might not be that easy to obtain a legitimate answer about the source of the problem... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted March 23, 2017 Share #8 Posted March 23, 2017 (edited) Your shots look exactly like mine did. As a matter of fact, mine looked even worse (i.e., the problem was more pronounced). The nature of the problem is that the two shutter curtains do not travel in perfect synchrony, in particular at the end and/or the beginning of shutter travel. As a result, the slit width formed between the two shutter curtains does not stay constant over the entire shutter travel, leading to uneven exposure. The problem is not visible at wider slit widths, i.e. longer exposure times. Andy Edited March 23, 2017 by wizard 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted March 23, 2017 Share #9 Posted March 23, 2017 This is a very common issue with old cameras with curtain shutters. Often it is old lubricants causing drag, but if only at the closing end of travel can be the curtain brake action. These seem to be at the "opening" end of travel as the curtains begin to move, so likely the first curtain is sluggish to get moving. I've collected many old cameras that had similar curtain issues when I got them (I've come to expect it), but all have been cured by a full "CLA" where the shutter is completely disassembled, cleaned lubed and adjusted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted March 26, 2017 Share #10 Posted March 26, 2017 Agree with Tom about first curtain sluggish. For me it looks like something what shall be cured with good CLA. And a comment to Andy posting about curtain travelling not in sync, this is valid for both LTM and Ms. Curtains do travel with different speed per design. This is because at the beginning they move with lower speed, speeding up across the whole frame and having highest speed at the end of travel. To compensate varying speed and to have even been exposure across the whole frame the slid width at the beginning is smaller than at the end. This is achieved by first curtain travelling faster than the second. Difference in speed is in the range of 10-15%. If anyone is interested, the service manuals for IIIf and Ms shows the specific pattern which may be observed through the shutter when looking at stroboscope light (or old TV with CRT, Cathode Ray Tube). Of course, if travel time of each curtain differs too much it leads to capping or uneven exposure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 26, 2017 Share #11 Posted March 26, 2017 I've no ideal why Leica would say this issue is unique to the TTL. Same type of shutter as every other mechanical M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted March 27, 2017 Share #12 Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) ... Of course, if travel time of each curtain differs too much it leads to capping or uneven exposure. Jerzy, That's exactly what I meant, although my explanation was a bit simplified for ease of understanding. And to James: While I have no definitive information as to why things are how they are, the M6TTL seems to be affected by this problem a fair bit more than other models. I seem to recall that Leica at the time mentioned that the M6TTL uses a certain shutter gasket made from a different material than used be, and that seems to aggravate the problem. Edited March 27, 2017 by wizard Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted March 28, 2017 Share #13 Posted March 28, 2017 I'm sorry to hear your Millennium is having a problem. I don't believe I've had this with my camera (same model as you know). I can imagine that it could be caused by lack of use since this is considered a "collectible model". Do you know to what extent your camera was used before you bought it? In any event, Leica's response seems unsatisfactory if you bought it from an authorised dealer. Unless sold as is (to be expected if a shelf queen) it seems to me they should be able to stand behind a sold camera's function and should offer to service it without cost to you. Just a few thoughts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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