millitorr.solutions Posted March 12, 2017 Share #1 Posted March 12, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hallo Forum, ich bin neu hier und habe eine Frage. Ich habe von meinem Vater (Werksangehöriger Leitz) eine M3 mit einem Summicron rigid in Schraubgewindeausführung mit der S/N 0000346. Womit habe es hier zu tun? Ich finde keine Hinweise ! Jeder Kommentar is highly appreciated. Millitorr Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270289-summicron-sn-0000346/?do=findComment&comment=3231793'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Hi millitorr.solutions, Take a look here Summicron, S/N 0000346. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jc_braconi Posted March 12, 2017 Share #2 Posted March 12, 2017 Wlcome to the forum It is a sample of prototype lens or null series example screw mount with LTM to M adapter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisPictor Posted March 12, 2017 Share #3 Posted March 12, 2017 Seltenes Sammlerstück! Herzlichen Glückwunsch! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Madureira Posted March 12, 2017 Share #4 Posted March 12, 2017 Welcome to the forum and congratulations for your rare collector piece! A lens with that S/N must be a prototype, that may be after tests, had been given to a Leitz worker, your Father, for instance. Antonio Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryzet Posted March 12, 2017 Share #5 Posted March 12, 2017 now we want to see the m3... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millitorr.solutions Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted March 12, 2017 Thanks for the reponse, unfortunately the M3 seems to be nothing special with S/N 964 261. To the summmicron: it is pure screw type, since the bayonette ring is a separate item, to compensate the 1 mm distance difference to the film. It is single range from 1 to oo in Meter the versions for sale have a mark "R8" on the bottom part, which is missing on this lens. I am more collector of coins, so i decided to have the lens on auction at Westlicht this June. I hope, that was not a bad idea. Millitorr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 12, 2017 Share #7 Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) This is definitely a very interesting item... I'd be curios to see some detailed pictures of the Lenshead and the focusing Mount separately ( ùin case you don't know, the lens head can be unscrewed from the base unit with foccus helicoid... you must grab the head from the top and rotate counterclockwise... it can be hard if the lens has stood for years untouched... but is a standard facility to Mount the lenshead on bellows with proper accessories) it would be interesting also to see how is the coating (if there is... is a prototype...) first Summicrons were made with different kinds of coating : the technology wasn't yet well assessed. Good idea to put it in WestLicht hands for auctioning... imho, it can get very high bids... Edited March 12, 2017 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millitorr.solutions Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted March 12, 2017 Hallo, lens is allready in Vienna. As long i remember it was possible to get it to 3. the lens head ( no additional number inside) and two bottowm parts. Sorry I did not pay attention to the coating. millitorr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millitorr.solutions Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted March 14, 2017 Hier noch ein paar Bilder. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270289-summicron-sn-0000346/?do=findComment&comment=3233045'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 14, 2017 Share #10 Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the pictures : a noticeable detail is that the front writing is in capital letters, while all the first Summicrons 50 (both BM and SM) had the old-styled Italic letters : change occurred around 1.600.000 ... it's a bit odd that a prototype is styled like this : maybe, it was not a prototype in strict terms (i.e. "pre-series") but an "internal use item" for some purpose... Edited March 14, 2017 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millitorr.solutions Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share #11 Posted March 14, 2017 Hallo, thanks for the information. You might be right. My father was working for the development department in these days as specialist for lens coatings. After that he was head of the special glas production department. The lens might be made as a test sample for some coating purpose? millitorr 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
millitorr.solutions Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted March 14, 2017 hallo, enclosed the camera with adapter bayonett and an additional lens. not as interesting as the summicron? millitorr Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270289-summicron-sn-0000346/?do=findComment&comment=3233453'>More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted March 14, 2017 Share #13 Posted March 14, 2017 Hello the M3 is from 1959 the Elmar 4_90 from 1955 Thanks for the pictures : a noticeable detail is that the front writing is in capital letters, while all the first Summicrons 50 (both BM and SM) had the old-styled Italic letters : change occurred around 1.600.000 ... it's a bit odd that a prototype is styled like this : maybe, it was not a prototype in strict terms (i.e. "pre-series") but an "internal use item" for some purpose... My Summicron 50 Rigid SM is of the same style of letter Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270289-summicron-sn-0000346/?do=findComment&comment=3233520'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 14, 2017 Share #14 Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) Hello the M3 is from 1959 the Elmar 4_90 from 1955 My Summicron 50 Rigid SM is of the same style of letter Right... I have evidence of 1.60x.xxx Summicrons SM with the old style letters... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ... and of 1.62x.xxx with the capital letters... Edited March 14, 2017 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ... and of 1.62x.xxx with the capital letters... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270289-summicron-sn-0000346/?do=findComment&comment=3233767'>More sharing options...
millitorr.solutions Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share #15 Posted March 15, 2017 Hallo, if I put together all the aspects, do you feel, having the lens on auction, is still a good idea? Millitorr Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80_20 Posted March 15, 2017 Share #16 Posted March 15, 2017 With respect to the very personal history of the lense, I would hesitate to sell it. It is not only an item your father once owned, but also had contributed to make it happen. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 15, 2017 Share #17 Posted March 15, 2017 (edited) Hallo, if I put together all the aspects, do you feel, having the lens on auction, is still a good idea? Millitorr If you aren't interested to Leica collectbles, there is no reason to keep it (as a remembrance of your Dad, the M3 is already a good thing to keep home). Of course, you can deal with WestLicht about a reserve price, I think... such items can have VERY FLUCTUATING values, on auctions : to make an example, a prototype Summicron (BM, with an odd front writing "B666") was auctioned in 2007 (or 2008... not sure) at something in the range of 1500 Euros... and the same item was sold 5 or 6 years later, by another auctioner at 25000 Euros... Just as a strictly personal opinion... should I have your item, wouldn't be interested in offerings under 4K Euros... but this isn't absolutely an evaluation... just my personal mood towards an interesting item. Edited March 15, 2017 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted March 15, 2017 Share #18 Posted March 15, 2017 If you need money sell it If not wait to be in need .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted March 16, 2017 Share #19 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Van Hasbroeck shows the following prototype lenses in the revised "Leica, A history etc"... a screw mount 5cm Summilux No 0000396 (colour plate XX) a 5cm f2.8 prototype Elmar No 000032 (colour plate XXII) a prototype 50mm f2.8 Elmar No 0000574 (colour plate XXIII) a prototype 3.5cm f3.5 Summaron No 0000119 (colour plate XXVII) a prototype 2.1cm f2.8 lens No 0000477 (colour plate XXX-e) a prototype f1.2 Noctilux No 0000730 (colour plate XXXV) So I'd say yours IS a prototype Summicron, and very rare. Also on p12 of his earlier "Rare & Unusual Leica etc." he states that prototype cameras ( and I suppose lenses?) were later acquired by factory employees at a nominal price. John Edited March 16, 2017 by jpattison Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted March 16, 2017 Share #20 Posted March 16, 2017 There are prototypes and there are prototypes!We have seen a number of Leica prototype lens (often with a special seven digit serial number starting with 0s (ex., 0000XXX). Most of these are pre-series/null series for testing and evaluation of lenses that were eventually offered for sale (eg., 35/2.0 8-element Summicron, 50mm Summicron, various versions, 90/2.0 SOOZI Wetzlar prototype, 180/3.4 Apo-Elcan-R, etc.).Sometimes, in the case of lenses perfectly identical to the ones commonly sold, forgers change only the front ring of the manufact, in order to make an alleged "prototype".Prototypes totally different from lenses that were actually sold or for lenses that were never sold, are the real prototypes, and much rare than those for lenses that were sold to the public (in the same shape).Moreover I report from pag.9 of Leica International Guide (Hove books):"...There also seems to be a continual drip-feeding of prototypes and factory one-offs of cameras, lenses and accessories that appear for sale with no accompanying history of information. Such objects should be treated with caution..."Coming back to real prototypes: you can expect to pay an awful lot of money if one of these types of lenses actually surfaces. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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