Compard Fix Ag Plus: experience with this product?

[Guest]

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Anyone used this product for archival FB processing:

 

COMPARD FIX Ag Plus (ähnlich Agefix) 3 Liter

 

https://www.nordfoto.de/analoge-fotografie/verbrauchsmaterial/fotochemikalien/sw-fixierb/compard-fix-ag-plus-aehnlich-agefix-3-liter

 

The price is very attractive. I'm interested in shelf life of stock solution (in opened canister or decanted into glas bottles). Also is it neutral or acidic?

 

So far I've been using Rollei RXN. I'm getting a headache when researching all the different fixers which all seem (or not seem) to be the same or similar (and what does similar mean anyways) but just have a different branding: Agfa/Compard/Agefix/Fix AG/Rollei RXN/Ecofix/X89/X88, etc.

 

I'm looking for a fixer to reduce time in fixer (ideally no more than 1minute) and wash time for FB paper. Rollei RXN worked well so far, so did X89, but this product seems to be very similar at less than half the cost...

 

Thanks for shedding some light on this.

 

Cheers,

Andreas

Edited March 8, 2017 by Guest

[Michael Hiles]

No experience with the stuff.

 

I use Ilford Rapid Fix, and I do what Ilford says for archival processing. It is simple and reliable. And not expensive. So far, so good.

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[Guest]

Thanks Michael, its probably the best way to be safe. Unfortunately the Ilford stuff is amongst the most expensive here in Germany.

 

I found out a little more about the Compard product:

 

* Compard seems to be the company which bottles the chemical (does not produce it)

* The fixer seems to be "similar" to Ag Fix Plus which seems to be similar to the old Agfa Agefix Plus (that "similar" makes me hesitate - similar how? or put another way: what's the difference and why?)

* The fixer seems to be produced by Agfa Gevaert N.V. in Belgium

* other sources say its produced in Leverkusen

 

Info compiled from unofficial sources on the internet (so probably wrong).

 

That re-branding, re-labeling, similar-to stuff etc. is over my head. I'll stick with RXN for now. At least name and properties of the product seems to be stable - which inspires some confidence.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

Update. I tried the product. Results so far:

 

- it works

- its almost odourless 1+7, 1+4 very very slight vinegar odour, but only when you I put my nose just above the liquid

- been using it 1+7 one shot (that is I discard it after one print session or the equivalent of 10 8x10 prints)

- after around 10 8x10s the silver content tests between 0 and 0.4g/L (FixAG test)

- pH is around 6, a little less, and stays there (I use plain citric acid stop), FixAG test

- its very inexpensive in the 3L canister (<5EUR/L)

 

It doesn't meet all my original conditions, but I found it a nice, non-stinking, inexpensive alternative if a rapid fix is needed.

 

Andi

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by Guest

[Richardgb]

'Stock', diluted, fixer as well as the concentrate lasts a long time if stored in a normal bottle at room temperature - certainly no need to replace it after every session.

 

Under normal conditions, fixer only ages through use, i.e. by fixing film or paper. (Always use a stop bath between developer and fix; this not only stops development but alos protects the fixer from developer being carried over, which would shorten its useful life). Even if you are only using it for paper, it is still possible to estimate when fixer is reaching a point when it should be replaced, although you'll need a piece of scrap since it's difficult to see when paper has 'cleared', i.e. lost its milky appearance from the presence of silver halide:

• When a fixing bath is new, put a piece of undeveloped film in it and note how long it takes to visually clear; the correct fixing time is double this.
• Every so often, retest the solution in the same way and when the film takes twice as long to clear as it first did, replace the solution with a fresh batch.
• Ideally, for greatest fixing efficiency, used 2 fixing baths: Fix in the first until the film is clear, then transfer to the second for the same time. When the clearing time in the first bath doubles, discard this and use the second bath as the first, and mix new fixer for the second solution.

There used to be chemical indicators available from the chemical and materials manufacturers to test for remaining silver halide (i.e. incomplete fixation); this was useful for critical, archival work, but the 2-bath method is simpler and still fairly accurate for most practical uses. (If such indicators are no longer available - it's a long time since I looked - I'm pretty sure you could find the required chemistry in a photo processing reference book and make the solution yourself).

 

Remember, though, the greatest 'threat' to photo stability is incomplete washing, but that's another story.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Richardgb

[Guest]

Hi Richard,

 

 

No offence intended, but plain hypo (sodium thiosulfate) is not very stable, unless you add sodium sulfite, a oxygen scavenger, your fixer (at a usable dilution) will not survive the day. Thus, I throw it out after each session (the plain hypo variant). I also like to have fresh chemicals with each session. This is a major factor in process stability and getting repeatable results. In case of my process you might have overlooked that I exhaust the working solution in one printing session (for archival results anyways). So for me there's a need to discard it.

 

 

You say "Under normal conditions, fixer only ages through use, i.e. by fixing film or paper.". That's a little imprecise. What are those normal conditions and how do you define "age". It certainly can go bad as stated above. Also the more you dilute the solution the more water (and thus more oxygen unless you boil the water) is in the working solution as well as less sulfite. It also matters in which vessel you store the solution. Glas being the best... well I won't go into that. There's more of course. But I just assume you meant the commercial fixer mentioned above, which is heavily buffered and protected, and in this case stock and 1+4 solutions will last months.

 

 

When testing fixer, first we need to discern what properties to test for: silver content, pH and byproducts are the important criterions. Then we need to determine what process we're testing for: film, rc paper, fiber paper. A third vector is permanence of the final print. Commercial processing has much higher limit values than, say, archival processing. A forth concern, orthogonal to the others and important for pro labs, is efficiency (as in to get the most out of the materials without making concessions to our limit values). Multiple stage fixing can optimize the use of materials in high volume situations. Film (movie) labs use more than 2 stages in the manner you suggest. What 2bath fixing can do for the hobby/fine art user is act as security net when using non-fresh chemicals with then uncertain properties.

 

 

- the clip test you describe is a very good test for film fixer. If clearing time doubles, discard it. I wouldn't recommend this method for paper unless you don't care about permanence. Its much to imprecise for paper. Film is not prone to suck up corrosive byproducts that need to be washed out later, so those don't matter. Paper is - especially fibre paper. This will have a major effect on permanence of a print.

 

- the iodide test is very imprecise unless you have access to high quality lab gear (namely a really precise pipette... and those cost real money) AND know the exact chemical composition of the fixer. Then theres still much uncertainty in the readout (meaning when exactly does it get milky and how milky is milky enough to make a determination). Again, for "commercial" fixing it might be ok to roughly guestimate when to discard the fix

 

- the Ag Fix test strips are also very imprecise, that is the readout precision may not be good enough for all processes. there's just one color patch from 0 to 0.5 g/L silver. and it's not a very different color. so at most, if you did the test right and your eyes are good, you can determine if the silver level rose above 0.5g/L. For archival purposes 0.5g might be a stretch

 

- an acid stop might or might not be a good thing, it depends on the fixer (i won't go into that) and can be outright wrong for film processed in pyro. other topic

 

- pH of fixer might or might not be relevant depending on many things, it is not relevant for the fixer action itself but for other components added (e.g. hardener) and the type of stop you use

 

 

 

I've left out the washing part. You're definitely right to emphasise this, Richard. Storage being the other big thing. A print hanging in the sun all day behind clearglass... or over a fireplace... well... you'll see it coming.

 

 

Re the washing, I'd like to recommend this publication:

 

 

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=296

 

 

There are more. Just googlescholar the topic.

 

 

At the end of the day it really needs to be considered all together. Which is a good thing since we can dispense with all the chemistry, medical lab gear, and what not and just do two simple tests on the final washed print (or film). As a rule of thumb I'd propose the following, unless you're happy with the so called "commercial" standards for print permanence:

 

 

- if you're using a ready made fixer, follow the instructions and capacity/storage recommendations to the letter and you'll be ok (given the liquid fixer was fresh-ish when you bought it)

 

- if the fixer sulphurs out (participates white flakes), it's gone ineffective, don't use it

 

- the only practical way to be sure with fixers of unknown properties, or if you don't use fresh chemicals, is to test your process. Meaning to test for incomplete fixation and incomplete washing. There are two tests for this HT-1 and HT-2 you can mix up yourself in 10minutes. Then test your process and re-test if you make the slightest change.

 

 

Still, theres one thing I'd test for at any rate: washing time for fibre paper. The HT-2 test will do this fine. Make up 50ml or so, all you need is acetic acid and silvernitrate. Pharmacies usually carry all those and even mix this up for you. Keep the test in a brown glas bottle with eye-dropper in the fridge and it will keep a year or two.

 

 

 

Wheww.. that was a mighty long post....

 

 

PS: Sorry, the forum software somehow messes up the nice paragraph formatting....

Edited July 6, 2017 by Guest

[Bateleur]

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Andreas, much food for thought here, especially your last post. 

 

Thank you

Charles