Deciding on the first 50mm Leica Lens

[lct]

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None of the above match the 50mm Elmar-M for almost instant index finger-only focusing. A tab would have made a brilliant lens almost perfect.

 

Matter of of tastes and/or ergonomics i guess. I prefer the untabbed version of the 50/2.8 for instance. But i would miss the tab of my 50/1.4 asph & 50/2 v4. YMMV.

[Robert M Poole]

I presume it's a design choice by Leica to not have a tab. What's the reasoning behind it? Does it make focusing more precise?

 

www.robertpoolephotography.com

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[honcho]

The Elmar-M is pretty precise without. Everyone should have one!

[Exodies]

I presume it's a design choice by Leica to not have a tab. What's the reasoning behind it? Does it make focusing more precise?

www.robertpoolephotography.com

This is a mystery, along with the other non-optics related variations. Why so many hood varieties? Why so many filter diameters? You would think they could figure out the absolute best .

[Robert M Poole]

This is a mystery, along with the other non-optics related variations. Why so many hood varieties? Why so many filter diameters? You would think they could figure out the absolute best .

The person who decided to remove the tab probable also decided that the foreskin (shudder) lens hood was a good idea.

 

www.robertpoolephotography.com

[lct]

Built-in retractable hoods have been in use since the seventies on telephotos for M, R & Visoflex if memory serves. What is new is their (vestigial) presence on standard lenses like M 50/2 v5, 50/2 apo and 50/1.4 asph. Matter of ergonomics and/or customers demand i suspect.

Focus tabs & knobs are even earlier and were dedicated to compact lenses generally. What is new is their absence on compact M lenses like 50/2 v5 and 50/2.8 v2. Matter of cost perhaps but i'm not sure of that since entry lenses like 50/2.5 and 50/2.4 have a focus tab. Matter of size then? Not sure either given that tabbed 50/2.5 and 50/2.4 are among the smaller 50mm lenses ever made and the M6J version of 50/2.8 v2 had a focus knob. Ergonomics could be the culprit again but why a tab on 50/2 apo and not on 50/2 v5 then? There must be some literature on this but i don't recall it right now.

Edited March 5, 2017 by lct

[M10Alpine]

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Hi everyone, I just picked up an M 240, which I'm enjoying using. I come from a background of Canon, Sony, and most recently Fuji cameras. My favorite focal length is the 50mm (with 35mm coming in second). I'm trying to determine what my first lens will be for the camera (I'm borrowing a lens right now). I'm looking to keep the price < $1600 USD (but can go up if necessary). I've heard great things about the latest Voigtlander 50mm F1.5 as an alternative to the Leica 50 Summicron. I'm having a hard time finding a used summicron locally and I hear buying online is tricky since you can't make sure everything is calibrated correctly. For the summicon, it sounds like V4 is a good bang for the buck, but I see those for around $1600, which isn't that much cheaper than a brand new v5 for $2100.

 

 

The Facebook Group "Leica Classifieds" is working well at least for me. I have done two successful transactions in that group in the last months.  

[ramarren]

I currently have both a Nokton 50mm f/1.5 ASPH (LTM) and a Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5. Both work very well on the M/M-P typ 240. However, I prefer the rendering of Leica 50mm lenses ... I'm going to keep the Color Skopar and use the Nokton as part trade on some other equipment, and I've just ordered a used-MINT Summicron-M 50mm f/2 in the current version. The six-bit coded lens makes better sense for my M-D (I use the Color Skopar on the M4-2 body most of the time). The price for this lens was $1800 ... "as new in the box" .. from my trusted dealer. He also had a slightly older version of the current series lens for $1650 when last I looked.

 

I've used a number of other Voigtländer lenses on my Leica Ms and they performed well, but the reason, for me anyway, to use a Leica M is to use Leica lenses on it.

[Steve Ricoh]

Slightly (or massively) off topic... For me Zone is the best utilisation of a RF, even HCB used zone, and the wider the lens the better, within reason. The 50mm needs fairly precise focus due to the inherent dof. I find the 35mm far more relaxed by comparison. But it all depends on what you like 'shooting'.

[wlaidlaw]

Another vote for the 50mm ZM Planar. When the APO Summicron came out (and after the flare was sorted), there were a number of testers said: "yes, it is better than the 50 ZM Planar but only a little and for five times the price"???  The non APO type IV and V Summicrons both have the same optical cell as each other, the later type V having a small slide out lens hood. However, IMHO it can be tricky to find a really good one. I am now on my fourth Series V Summicron and finally I have got a really good one. Prior to that I have had one reasonable one, which I sold, as I had a 50 ASPH Summilux at the time and felt I did not need both. After I sold the 50 Summilux, deciding I did not like its super stiff focus, razor sharp focusing tab and purple fringing on digital, I then went looking for a modern f2 50 again. I bought two series V 50 Summicrons, albeit not at the same time. The first was poor with static back focus, slight de-centering plus horrible aperture shift. The second was unusable with a wrongly ground RF cam, in focus at infinity but not at any other distance. I therefore bought a 50 Planar, which I have been delighted with, other than for B&W film photography, where its super high contrast is not an advantage on the already high contrast Fomapan 200, my normal film. When I got a near mint Reid & Sigrist Model III type 2 (the finest built of any LTM camera) last year, I decided I needed an LTM 50 of matching quality. I was lucky enough to find a mint 1999 year special edition chrome LTM series V Summicron (Model 11619) at a reasonable price. I am delighted to say that this Summicron passed all the focus and aperture shift tests with flying colours. Of course it is usable on all my M mount cameras with a Rayqual coded adapter ring and on my SL with the ring and an M to T/L adapter. 

 

Wilson

[michaelwj]

Focus tabs have always intrigued me. Here's my take. 35mm and wider M mount have ALL had a tab. 75mm and longer have NEVER had a tab, so 50mm seems to be tipping point. I don't believe it has anything to lens compactness, it's just a coincidence. I'm also not calling an infinity lock a focus tab, it's not.

Now to the 50mm. The first focus tabbed 50 was the v4 summicron. This model also had a much shorter focus throw than the v3, so perhaps the designer thought that it would work. Since then, the only 50mm lenses not to have a focus tab are the Noctilux (all), v5 summicron, pre-asph summilux and the elmar-M. I have no idea why the tab was not included on the v5 summicron or the pre-asph summilux -the focus throws are short enough. I assume precision is the reason for it not being on the Noctilux, but I can only presume that it was left off the elmar-M as a nod to the history of the lens?

Edited March 7, 2017 by michaelwj

[lct]

50/1.4's had no focus tabs or buttons due to their size i guess but 50/2 v1 & v2 had a focus button if memory serves. 

[wlaidlaw]

With my damaged fingers and hands, I wish the Series V 50 Summicrons had a focus tab or even a bump like the Zeiss ZM lenses have. Maybe that is the best answer, as it would not offend those who don't like tabs but is good enough for those that do like them. Mind you a bump would not have worked on the 50 ASPH Summilux I had. Even the tab was inadequate for how stiff that chrome lens was. A 4 cm long follow focus lever would have been better. The other benefit of a tab or bump is that it gives you an immediate tactile reference of where the lens is focussed. I have two 50mm Leica lenses where the infinity is at 11 o'clock rather the normal 7 o'clock but they are both on cameras where I use a separate rangefinder (O series and Model 1©) so it doesn't matter. 

 

Wilson

[michaelwj]

50/1.4's had no focus tabs or buttons due to their size i guess but 50/2 v1 & v2 had a focus button if memory serves. 

 

 

I suppose it depends on what we call v1 and v2, and what we call a focus button vs an infinity lock, and if an infinity lock can be called a focus tab? Personally, I think an infinity lock is not a focus tab, and 50mm lenses with an infinity lock button also have a very good focus ring - except the collapsible summicron, where the focus ring is tiny and I assume the button must be used to focus (I haven't actually used one). Okay, so now I look closely at all this, the original elmar had no focus ring at all, just the button, so I suppose I'm wrong there - the elmar-M is the first collapsible without a focus aid (infinity lock or tab)... 

 

v1 (rigid) had an infinity lock, v2 (dual range?) also had an infinity lock I believe, but can't remember (!). v3 (11817) had nothing but a nice big ring.

 

So, looking even more closely I'd summarise that 35mm and below get a tab, 75mm and up get a ring, 50mm gets a lucky dip with no rhyme or reason - most likely to keep us busy pondering these things... 

[lct]

I suppose it depends on what we call v1 and v2, and what we call a focus button [...]

 

50/2 v1 # 11116 and v2 # 11818:

 

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[michaelwj]

It's interesting. Sometimes the button is clearly intended to be used as a means of focus (collapsible - especially the elmar), while other times it appears in addition to (and partially obscuring) a very capable ring (rigid).

[lct]

Indeed 50/2 v1 & 50/2 v2 can be focussed w. and w/o focus aid contrary to 50/2 v4 which needs its focus tab. Was considered a novelty when i bought my 50/2 v4 in the eighties. A 50 designed like a 35 sort of. Was due to the small size of 50/2 v4 i guess. Same for 50/2.5 & 50/2.4 currently but the taller 50/2 apo can be focussed both with its tab and dented ring as expected. 

[AceVentura1986]

I was worried about the lack of the focus tab but it's actually quite easy much easier than I thought actually. Someone showed me how to hold it and have one finger underneath the lens and just sort of fold and unfold your finger and the focus is quite easy. I've considered a lens tab too.

www.robertpoolephotography.com

The 50 cron is large enough that focusing w the ring alone isn't an inconvenience. It does, however, leave you sort of blind as to the position of the focus ring. With a ring you can sort of intuit zone focusing by the position of the tab. Without a tab, I've learned to always park the lens at infinity and then move it from there. If I place my finger on the same spot when focused at infinity I can intuit 15, 10, and 5 feet distances at f/8.

[AceVentura1986]

The person who decided to remove the tab probable also decided that the foreskin (shudder) lens hood was a good idea.

www.robertpoolephotography.com

My only issue w the retractable hood is that I've always though it should have a twist and lock feature.

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[wlaidlaw]

My only issue w the retractable hood is that I've always though it should have a twist and lock feature.

 

My feeling with the retractable lens hood is that it is just too small, particularly if you have a filter fitted. For black and white film during the winter, I have a yellow filter fitted most of the time to bring out detail on flat skies. With a filter fitted, that is when you really need an effective hood to prevent ghost pale grey filter circle images. You can see below with the filter on a 11619 LTM series V Summicron, how little shade it gives. I often take the e39 ventilated hood off my 40 Summicron-C (fitting with a series 5.5 to e39 adapter ring on that lens),  to use on the 11619 when I am using a filter. 

 

Wilson

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Edited March 11, 2017 by wlaidlaw