Best 35mm Summicron version for still life

[colin_d]

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I do a lot of indoor still life on my ME. At the moment the lens that I use is a 50mm Summitar, but on occasion I need a wider lens and definitely something that gets closer than 1m to the subject. I'm probably going to try a 35mm Summicron, is there one version, or even one build batch, that would suit my purpose best? Bokeh is not an issue, I shoot at f22 - f32.

 

Colin 

Edited February 23, 2017 by colin_d

[microview]

Do any off them go beyond f16? I don't think so.

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[lct]

Zeiss Biogon 35/2 does 0.7m, f/22 but no Summicron 35/2 i'm afraid (f/16).

Only Leica solution is Summaron 35/2.8 (0.7m, f/22) AFAIK but i may be wrong.

 

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[luigi bertolotti]

0,7 is anyway the limit for RF lenses... and with ME you haven't liveview/EVF ; and if you want to stop down strong, as lct says Summaron 2,8 (fine lens, btw) is the only Leitz lens to have f22 and 0,7m

[dpitt]

Not sure why you want to get closer. If it is to increase your magnification i.e. fill more of your frame with the subject, you would get higher magnification with a 50mm Summicron that focusses to 0,7m.

 

The 90mm f/4 Macro-Elmar-M will do even better and can be used with an adapter to about 1:3 magnification.

 

Using a visoflex III on the M-E is an other option to do macro shots, but then it is not a RF system anymore.

[Ko.Fe.]

Cron DR will get you much closer than Summitar. Some modification might be required for getting it on M-E.

http://www.rfsg.asia/leica-m8-50mm-f-2-summicron-dr/

And maybe Summaron 35 3.5 in M mount?

It goes down to f22 and goggled version has most shorter minimal focus distance, if I'm not mistaken, 0.65 m. I had one, but before getting of M-E.

I don't know if version with goggles will works on M-E.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Ko.Fe.

[Jean-Michel]

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The Summicron version 1, goggled, will focus down to .65 m or 2.2 ft. It will fit on any M. But, for close-up work the framing will be ok in general but the parallax error will be exacerbated. Close-up work with a rangefinder is a compromise at best; with live view, it becomes more do-able. 

I understand that the dual range 50 does not work on any digital M.

Jean-Michel

[UliWer]

The 1:2.8/35mm Summaron with M bayonet and no goggles focusses down to 0.7m and has f22. At least my version from 1959 does.

 

The 1:2/35 Summicron with M bayonet and no goggles also focussses down to 0.7m but only has f16.

 

I am not sure if the 1:3.5/35 Summaron with M-bayonet and no goggles focusses down to 0,7m - though it should as it was made for the M2 which allows this distance (the rangefinder of the M3 does not). It should have f22 as well.

 

So the Summarons seem to be the best choices (at f16 and smaller all lenses are equal, no need to spend much money on a Summicron.)

[luigi bertolotti]

..I am not sure if the 1:3.5/35 Summaron with M-bayonet and no goggles focusses down to 0,7m - though it should as it was made for the M2 which allows this distance (the rangefinder of the M3 does not). It should have f22 as well.

Oddly enough, even the last version of the 3,5 (for M2) goes to 1 m only (a bit under, in my item....)

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Edited February 23, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[colin_d]

Not sure why you want to get closer. If it is to increase your magnification i.e. fill more of your frame with the subject, you would get higher magnification with a 50mm Summicron that focusses to 0,7m.

 

The 90mm f/4 Macro-Elmar-M will do even better and can be used with an adapter to about 1:3 magnification.

 

Using a visoflex III on the M-E is an other option to do macro shots, but then it is not a RF system anymore.

It's a style technique I have learnt from a well respected still life photographer. Rule of thumb is the width of the subject should be the same as the distance the lens is from the subject. Closer with very low illumination works well for light and shade harmony, it gives the image an intimacy as well. I do long exposure, up to 20min, closer again works best in this type of work.

 

The 50mm Summitar only goes to f16 as well and I've been able to work around that ok, it's only issue is the 1m distance, which can be limiting on occasions.

Edited February 23, 2017 by colin_d

[colin_d]

Not having f22 might not be a show stopper, just means positioning of the backdrop needs adjustment for dof. I'm still keen on the Cron, probably a later Asph version. Bokeh doesn't appear in my work so that is not part of the consideration.

 

I'll also look into the Summaron and Biogin as a matter of comparison of price and performance. They're not out of the question, just my preference in the first place was for the Cron because of its reputation.

Edited February 23, 2017 by colin_d

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Colin,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

In 35mm photography a 35mm lens gives you the angle of view where: The distance to the subject focused on: Is the same in meters as: The long side width of the scene seen thru the appropriate frame in the range/viewfinder. 

 

Lenses that operate well at larger apertures & at further focusing distances sometimes operate differently at smaller apertures coupled with shorter focusing distances.

 

Years ago Photo Magazines (Assembled collections of paper with writing, diagrams & photos on the paper's surfaces.) would test the usability of various lenses in various situations. Including what you would like to do.

 

You might see if you can find copies of these types of tests for the older lenses that you are considering. Possibly in the Computer.

 

Examples of Magazines from the 1960's & 1970's that might have what you are looking for might be (In English) Modern Photography, Camera 35 & Popular Photography.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited February 23, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

[lct]

[...] I'll also look into the Summaron and Biogin as a matter of comparison of price and performance. They're not out of the question, just my preference in the first place was for the Cron because of its reputation.

 

No f/22 then. At f/16, performance of the 35/2 asph suffers somewhat from diffraction. The sharper Summicron 35 there would be the v1 i've been told but i have no experience with it.

Edited February 24, 2017 by lct

[pico]

As an aside because the Biogon was mentioned. In my experience  medium and large format Biogons  perform best at wide apertures, wide open or one stop down, and still perform well until diffraction occurs at the same small apertures  where other lenses fail.

 

FWIW, when aerial survey lenses are tested for certification they are done at the widest (largest physical) aperture and Biogons excel.

 

If someone can convince me the same is not true for FF 35mm, I would appreciate it.

Edited February 24, 2017 by pico

[michaelwj]

I know this is a Leica forum and all, but the 35mm f/1.7 Voigtander M mount lenses focus to 0.5m (but only goes to f/16)...

[lct]

As an aside because the Biogon was mentioned. In my experience  medium and large format Biogons  perform best at wide apertures, wide open or one stop down, and still perform well until diffraction occurs at the same small apertures  where other lenses fail. [...]

 

My experience with 35mm Biogons is limited to the current ZM 35/2.8. It is a very sharp and contrasty lens at all apertures with a bit of vignetting and classical diffraction at f/16 & f/22. At those small apertures, all 35mm M lenses i know of perform more or less alike with only one exception, the Summicron 35/2 v1 which would perform superbly at f/16 AFAIK but i have never used that lens so take what i say with a pinch of salt.

Edited February 24, 2017 by lct

[tsleica]

35mm Summaron is wonderful..stopped down to f22 on an ext tube..

[colin_d]

Nice, the extension tube is that for macro? Should explore Summaron the f22 gives me latitude with long exposure.

[tsleica]

I just stack the amount of DOORX 39mm extension tubes I have on my Leica enlargers..can go 2 to 3 tubes if needed..

I also use a Sony a7 also w/closeup adapter..which works great too..

Another really good option.. for close up work.. use a 50mm Focotar-2..for nice flat field ..the corners sing as much as the center..

But the 35mm Summaron at f22 for some reason..displays less diffraction stopped down..than other lenses I have tried..

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[lct]

The Biogon 35/2.8 is no slouch at f/22 either.

Handheld with A7s mod & Leica Macro-Adapter-M:

http://tinyurl.com/z965kwt

(F/22, 8000 iso, 1/100s, 8MB file)

Edited February 25, 2017 by lct