greyelm Posted February 14, 2017 Share #1 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I am awaiting the arrival of a IIIa with a Summar attached that I got for a lowish price on eBay. While looking at the photos I noticed that the lens was different to my other Summar. After searching on the web I think this may be a rare Tropen (tropical) variant with an extra element. Does anyone know anything about these? I notice on the photos of mine that the serial number is 2257xx which is lower than the examples on line which are 4xxxxx. If mine is in fact a Tropen it could be worth a couple of thousand dollars. I'll post some pictures when it arrives. Edited February 14, 2017 by greyelm Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Hi greyelm, Take a look here Summar 5cm Tropen. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sabears Posted February 14, 2017 Share #2 Posted February 14, 2017 Sorry, no chance, there are not Tropen Summar in the 22xx... league. All starts from 4xxxetccheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyelm Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted February 14, 2017 The serial number difference did puzzle me so I'm looking forward to receiving the lens so I can have a closer look. It certainly matches the pictures of an authentic Tropen but we all know how many modified Leica lenses there are about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted February 14, 2017 Share #4 Posted February 14, 2017 The main external distinguishing feature of the Tropen Summar is a thin groove running along the barrel similar to that on the barrel of the later Summitar. If a Summar with this feature emerges with a 'too early' serial number, there are a number of possibilities such as change of front ring or, if it is possible, the substitution of a Summitar barrel. Please post photos when you receive the lens but be aware that alterations could have been made at some stage. For example, I have seven collapsible Summars (mainly different variants) and one of them appears to be the mount of one variant matched together with the lens head of another variant. I believe that this was done by a repair technician at some stage. A 'Tropen' with the 'wrong serial number' would need careful examination before any conclusions are made. William 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyelm Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted February 15, 2017 The camera and lens have arrived and as expected the Summar doesn't appear to be a Tropen due to the lack of groove on the barrel and the lower serial number. The aperture ring is different to my only other Summar so I am curious about this. Here a couple of quick pictures that shows the main features. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269404-summar-5cm-tropen/?do=findComment&comment=3213593'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 15, 2017 Share #6 Posted February 15, 2017 The aperture ring has the mark at f 2,9... the aperture to be used with the well known Agfacolor filter : it's an interesting variant, probably rather uncommon. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted February 15, 2017 Share #7 Posted February 15, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not sure how rare this variation is - it appears identical to the 1934 Summar I got with a model III: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269404-summar-5cm-tropen/?do=findComment&comment=3213641'>More sharing options...
greyelm Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted February 15, 2017 Mine is from 1934 too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted February 15, 2017 Share #9 Posted February 15, 2017 Hello Everyone, Does anyone have an optical diagram of the lens with the extra element? A side by side pair of drawings, regular & extra, would be helpful.Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyelm Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #10 Posted February 15, 2017 Hello Everyone, Does anyone have an optical diagram of the lens with the extra element? A side by side pair of drawings, regular & extra, would be helpful. Best Regards, Michael Is this any help? http://www.leica-historica.de/VIDOM_85.pdf 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 15, 2017 Share #11 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Hello Everyone, Does anyone have an optical diagram of the lens with the extra element? A side by side pair of drawings, regular & extra, would be helpful. Best Regards, Michael Marco Cavina has everything Summar std. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Summar Tropen (around 100 made) ... from which Berek finally derived the Summitar... ... and then Summitar* ... and then Summicron... ...other designers on Berek's legacy Edited February 15, 2017 by luigi bertolotti 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Summar Tropen (around 100 made) ... from which Berek finally derived the Summitar... ... and then Summitar* ... and then Summicron... ...other designers on Berek's legacy ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269404-summar-5cm-tropen/?do=findComment&comment=3213820'>More sharing options...
greyelm Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted February 15, 2017 Or this. http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/50mm_Leica_a_telemetro/00_pag.htm 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted February 15, 2017 Share #13 Posted February 15, 2017 The Summitar and the Summicron wear the same longitudinal groove on the barrel as the Summar Troppen 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted February 16, 2017 Share #14 Posted February 16, 2017 Not sure how rare this variation is - it appears identical to the 1934 Summar I got with a model III: 1934 Summar.jpg I have a few variants shown here in the front row: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The variations here include black top, nickel and meters and feet variations. In addition the first four from the left have the f2.9 mark for use with the short-lived Agfa filters. The first 3 from the left have the slot feature below the aperture ring. The last 3 from the centre to the right have an infra-red mark. The item at the back, modelling the SOOMP hood, is actually the head of one of these variations with the mount of another; probably done by a repair man many years ago. In addition to these, I have an early nickel rigid model and a coated version of the last lens on the right here. I can post photos of these if anyone is interested. William 5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The variations here include black top, nickel and meters and feet variations. In addition the first four from the left have the f2.9 mark for use with the short-lived Agfa filters. The first 3 from the left have the slot feature below the aperture ring. The last 3 from the centre to the right have an infra-red mark. The item at the back, modelling the SOOMP hood, is actually the head of one of these variations with the mount of another; probably done by a repair man many years ago. In addition to these, I have an early nickel rigid model and a coated version of the last lens on the right here. I can post photos of these if anyone is interested. William ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269404-summar-5cm-tropen/?do=findComment&comment=3214643'>More sharing options...
Danlam Posted August 6, 2017 Share #15 Posted August 6, 2017 I recently acquired the aluminum can, shown in the pictures below. This would appear to be an original can for the Summar Tropen lens which is further discussed in the threads of this forum. Summarizing, Leitz would appear to have produced 80-100 of these lenses during 1937, which makes them quite rare. In none of the pictures I've found of these lenses is the can pictured, which leads me to believe that of the few produced, fewer still have survived. The aluminum in these is very thin -- even thinner than the aluminum used to hold the film cans (FILCA). These cans appear to be more rare than the Summar lenses they held! Can anyone provide more information about this? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269404-summar-5cm-tropen/?do=findComment&comment=3331485'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 9, 2017 Share #16 Posted August 9, 2017 It seems ti me that those alu cans were made for most of the lenses of the '30s... I Remember to have seen One for the hektor 28... As you say they are very thin and probably that's the reason why they are so scarce... The not so many sold probably became very worn in usage... They are very interesting accessories. Inviato dal mio VTR-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelwj Posted August 10, 2017 Share #17 Posted August 10, 2017 The cans would make a good tea canister! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted September 29, 2017 Share #18 Posted September 29, 2017 I like this lens Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269404-summar-5cm-tropen/?do=findComment&comment=3367462'>More sharing options...
Pecole Posted September 30, 2017 Share #19 Posted September 30, 2017 It seems ti me that those alu cans were made for most of the lenses of the '30s... I Remember to have seen One for the hektor 28... As you say they are very thin and probably that's the reason why they are so scarce... The not so many sold probably became very worn in usage... They are very interesting accessories. Inviato dal mio VTR-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk I had at least one alu case - they were called "tropical cases" in ex-Belgian Congo - for 5cm Elmar. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269404-summar-5cm-tropen/?do=findComment&comment=3367737'>More sharing options...
Pecole Posted September 30, 2017 Share #20 Posted September 30, 2017 The aperture ring has the mark at f 2,9... the aperture to be used with the well known Agfacolor filter : it's an interesting variant, probably rather uncommon. I also had a "2.9 mark" Summar in my Fontenelle collection : here is an image. Note that it also has a "lever-actuated" diaphragm and an infra-red mark. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/269404-summar-5cm-tropen/?do=findComment&comment=3367742'>More sharing options...
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