Jump to content

M10 flash issue


jto555

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Thanks Gordon, so to address your points.

 

1. Yes, and I am still using my M240s.

 

2. For me, that would mean buying 2 M10s as that is the form factor I wan to use. And also buying a SL. That would be an extra €6900 on top of €13000 for two M10s. Ouch! Also, using two different cameras systems would drive me nuts. Buttons would be in different places, etc.

 

3. Not looking for video. Very few 'stills' cameras can compete with the Panasonic GH4 or even better the GH5 anyway.

 

All film Leicas have a PC socket, that is all I want, a PC socket. One little PC socket. Is it too much to ask for, a PC socket.... Please, can I have a PC socket.... Nice PC socket... Nice precious... Lost! Lost! My Precious is lost!!   

 

OK, Im stepping away from the computer now.   :wacko:

 

Probably a good idea the last one ........

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Gordon, so to address your points.

 

1. Yes, and I am still using my M240s.

 

2. For me, that would mean buying 2 M10s as that is the form factor I wan to use. And also buying a SL. That would be an extra €6900 on top of €13000 for two M10s. Ouch! Also, using two different cameras systems would drive me nuts. Buttons would be in different places, etc.

 

3. Not looking for video. Very few 'stills' cameras can compete with the Panasonic GH4 or even better the GH5 anyway.

 

All film Leicas have a PC socket, that is all I want, a PC socket. One little PC socket. Is it too much to ask for, a PC socket.... Please, can I have a PC socket.... Nice PC socket... Nice precious... Lost! Lost! My Precious is lost!!   

 

OK, Im stepping away from the computer now.   :wacko:

 

I see your points and I mostly agree with you. If there were a PC socket I too would be happy about it. But there isn't and until to M10-P, at least, there won't be. Maybe never. So we need to look outside that box for a solution.

 

For many years I was the same. Two identical bodies. Different lenses. Of course when I moved to the M9 I needed three bodies because 1 was having the sensor replaced, all the time..... The M240 was very reliable though. One RF adjustment in three years of shooting wedding, corporate portraits and events. Two M's. One with the bracket and MF grip for flash. At least I was using two of the same bodies.

 

Except I wasn't.....

 

Having a MF grip on one camera (and plain grip on the other) plus the flash bracket and cable made the cameras feel completely different. The handling was bloody awful. Unwieldy and unbalanced. Lenses were harder to focus. the camera was harder to hold steady. So I tried the SL.

 

At first I didn't like it. I nearly sent it back but after discussions with Leica about the firmware I waited. I even bought a pair of XPro2's and lenses (which are great btw). So I was still shooting identical bodies. My dealer smiles when I walk in because he knows I usually buy in pairs. :) Then they fixed the SL. With a flash on the hotshoe it's just fab.

 

I love my M's too. I took 3 years to sell my unused M9 because of an irrational emotional attachment to it. I still have my M and M-P despite having the SL and a M10 or order (they'll have to go cause I can't keep them all). I still get more joy out of shooting my M whenever and wherever I can. I still shoot weddings with it. And portraits. And corporate. But at my last two weddings I've shot the M and SL (and an S :) )as a team and I'm convinced they're the perfect combination for me. The SL for the EVF/flash combo and the M for the RF shooting experience. I actually prefer it to two M's, if one of them has to have the MF grip and TTL cord/bracket hanging off the side. Remember the SL is the same size and weight as an M if you add the EVF and MF grip to the latter. It'll take the same space in the bag. The files look essentially the same. There's no drop in IQ. The SL is waaaaaaay quicker at everything than the M, even the new one.

 

Now I'm NOT saying that what's right for me is right for you. What I'm saying is I understand how you feel and that I felt exactly the same. But after getting over the initial disappointment I now know I made the right decision and having two different cameras isn't a big deal at all. I've found I prefer an M/SL combo to two M's even though I was a die hard identical body shooter for many years.

 

Beg, borrow, steal or rent an SL for a week. (with the zoom. trust me on that). Maybe you won't change your opinion at all. Maybe, like me it'll work out better than you might have hoped for.

 

Gordon

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I now know I made the right decision and having two different cameras isn't a big deal at all.

 

Gordon

 

It is a big deal if you are not earning money from your cameras and still want the best possible experience for your money. So for some of us depending on our preferences etc etc, it is either an M10 or an SL but no way both. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a big deal if you are not earning money from your cameras and still want the best possible experience for your money. So for some of us depending on our preferences etc etc, it is either an M10 or an SL but no way both. 

 

Sure. But jto555 is. He's using a pair of M's for commercial shooting. I am only relating because I had a similar decision to make a year or so ago and I shoot in sometimes, similar circumstances.

 

And I adore my M's. I really do. But if all my bodies were stolen I'd replace the SL first. Then the M when I could afford it.

 

Gordon

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure. But jto555 is. He's using a pair of M's for commercial shooting. I am only relating because I had a similar decision to make a year or so ago and I shoot in sometimes, similar circumstances.

 

And I adore my M's. I really do. But if all my bodies were stolen I'd replace the SL first. Then the M when I could afford it.

 

Gordon

Yes I am using the cameras for commercial work. However, to upgrade to the two M10's plus one SL is about a €16,000 plus vat investment. So if a new body is announced in four years, then I have a €4000 write down per year, to then start all over again in fours years time. And if I did buy it, would it increase my business and would my clients see an image quality improvement? I think the answer is no.

 

Revenue will allow me to write down an asset over seven years. So for the M11 launch in 3 to 4 years, it then is more advantages for me to upgrade. I would have gone for it now (and hidden from my accountant :ph34r:) but for the limitation of no flash ability with the EVF fitted, and the suggestion of the SL just pushes the finances to be uneconomical for me. Too much investment for too little return.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Thanks Gordon, so to address your points.

 

1. Yes, and I am still using my M240s.

 

2. For me, that would mean buying 2 M10s as that is the form factor I wan to use. And also buying a SL. That would be an extra €6900 on top of €13000 for two M10s. Ouch! Also, using two different cameras systems would drive me nuts. Buttons would be in different places, etc.

 

3. Not looking for video. Very few 'stills' cameras can compete with the Panasonic GH4 or even better the GH5 anyway.

 

All film Leicas have a PC socket, that is all I want, a PC socket. One little PC socket. Is it too much to ask for, a PC socket.... Please, can I have a PC socket.... Nice PC socket... Nice precious... Lost! Lost! My Precious is lost!!   

 

OK, Im stepping away from the computer now.   :wacko:

 

yeah it sucks when you loose the things you need. Why is USB on a optional grip so unecessary? That was my precious, and now, instead it's gone and I have to dump the M system altogether and move on from Leica.

 

I tried stepping away from the computer and it doesn't work.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Gordon, so to address your points.

 

1. Yes, and I am still using my M240s.

 

2. For me, that would mean buying 2 M10s as that is the form factor I wan to use. And also buying a SL. That would be an extra €6900 on top of €13000 for two M10s. Ouch! Also, using two different cameras systems would drive me nuts. Buttons would be in different places, etc.

 

3. Not looking for video. Very few 'stills' cameras can compete with the Panasonic GH4 or even better the GH5 anyway.

 

All film Leicas have a PC socket, that is all I want, a PC socket. One little PC socket. Is it too much to ask for, a PC socket.... Please, can I have a PC socket.... Nice PC socket... Nice precious... Lost! Lost! My Precious is lost!!   

 

OK, Im stepping away from the computer now.   :wacko:

Don't worry, you are certainly not the only one with same issues... It would be simple to add SCA-port and it would not add any any weight or bulk to the body. Imho. And with one swift strike M10 would become much more appealing for studio/strobist shooters. :mellow:

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't worry, you are certainly not the only one with same issues... It would be simple to add SCA-port and it would not add any any weight or bulk to the body. Imho. And with one swift strike M10 would become much more appealing for studio/strobist shooters. :mellow:

 

I think they could do this with a hot shoe accessory. All it would have to do is use the hotshoe for connection to an SCA-port and then recreate the connectors as a pass through from the hotshoe. It would need to be an inch tall at most and would allow easy use of the EVF and flash. A grip that still may be possible could allow USB and for those wanting video we may well see a variant of the M10 or more likely a successor to the m240 that include video and a good set of ports. What I think we should not do is assume that the limitations of the camera about a month after release are going to be the long term limitations of the camera. Add on may address some of the limitations and very likely variants or future models will as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A pass-through for the hot shoe has been mentioned several times in different threads. It would support EVF with a PC connection on the side. I think it would be simple to make and I would bet that someone, if not Leica, has already designed it.

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I use flash and never use the Visoflex, nor did I use the EVF on the M240 and no bracket. I have the MFH for the M240/246 but rarely use the PC cord functionality if at all.

 

What I'm saying is, It can be done, and is accurate.

 

I can see what you mean with shooting wide open or the like, but I can zone focus and typically get it right just off the lens markings.

 

if you are using a 75, 90 or a 135 it could get tricky.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hi Bill, yes it can be done for one or two shots, but for me, I could be doing 50 corporate portraits on two different backgrounds using either a 75mm or the 135mm. So that is 100 shots multiplied by how many exposers I take of each person. My eyes can get tired, so I fine it is a lot easer to use the EVF. As for flash, I need consistency throughout the shoot, so I cannot rely on available light.

 

For environmental portraits, I am typicality shooting wide open or one stop off to throw out a busy background, and that really does test your focusing ability.  :blink:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Leica should just put a flash socket on their camera bodies.  Because you just can't use a viewfinder and a flash in the hot shoe at the same time.  It's been the same problem since their first digital M(8).

 

Time to grow up and accept that a lot of good photographers do use flash.

On the body please Leica.  I don't want a grip...or any add on.  The range-finder system is the only system that really needs a body take-off for flash. 

I want to still use Leica cameras because I like them...but my patience is wearing thin.

 

....

Edited by david strachan
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

if it can't be in the body for some reason then at least give the option of having one, at all, in a grip. It's always been in an M so why on earth would you remove it?

 

They obviously figure that low light iso is good enough now but we use flash for aesthetic more than lack of light these days. It's crazy to deny long time users of this sort of thing.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...