epand56 Posted February 7, 2017 Share #21 Posted February 7, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Instead of wasting money on swapping your M240 for an M10 you could save to fund a Nocti. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 Hi epand56, Take a look here New camera, time to go vintage?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted February 7, 2017 Share #22 Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) So far it seems to be between the 10CV and the 18 SEM. And the price difference of £1000 The CV 10mm is astounding. There is no lens as wide with such good control over distortion and vignetting, and correction in Adobe's ACR is quick and straightforward. I have owned the first and latest CV 15mm and cannot rationalize the lens now that I have the 10mm. Downside? Well, it is a large lens. It has to be in order be as corrected as it is for our rangefinder bodies. It is worth the size. Since getting the 10mm my carry along is 10mm, 35mm Summilux and 75mm Summilux, and I'm very happy. Best of luck to you! Edited February 7, 2017 by pico 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share #23 Posted February 7, 2017 Instead of wasting money on swapping your M240 for an M10 you could save to fund a Nocti. £8500 to spend on a lens - however that is spent is not something I am going to entertain. My M10 upgrade is costing me £2500 which I don't think is a bad deal considering I've had the M240 since launch. So I'd still need to find £6000 if I saved my money from the trade-in. When I buy new kit I have to look at the commercial value I would gain from having that kit. I really do not think that I would get £6000 worth more work by having a Nocti. Perhaps I should sell ALL my glass and fund one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted February 7, 2017 Share #24 Posted February 7, 2017 £8500 to spend on a lens - however that is spent is not something I am going to entertain. My M10 upgrade is costing me £2500 which I don't think is a bad deal considering I've had the M240 since launch. So I'd still need to find £6000 if I saved my money from the trade-in. When I buy new kit I have to look at the commercial value I would gain from having that kit. I really do not think that I would get £6000 worth more work by having a Nocti. Perhaps I should sell ALL my glass and fund one? The problem is your new M10 will be soon strongly devalued (50% less in a couple years?), while a lens should mantain its value and sometime maybe rise it. Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted February 7, 2017 Share #25 Posted February 7, 2017 Besides, the M10 takes the same exact pictures as the M240, while a lens could change them a lot. Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share #26 Posted February 7, 2017 The problem is your new M10 will be soon strongly devalued (50% less in a couple years?), while a lens should mantain its value and sometime maybe rise it. Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk But I buy kit to use because I need it - not because I want it as an investment. If my M10 get's me £3100 in 4 years time that's not too bad. If I have to contribute 2000-2500 every 4 years, it would take me 4 years to equal the cost of a Nocti. Anyway - I am not interested in buying one. If there was a second hand one for a good price I would consider it but I wont find one for the price I'd be willing to pay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share #27 Posted February 7, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Besides, the M10 takes the same exact pictures as the M240, while a lens could change them a lot. Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk Exactly the same? No difference at all in the picture quality? Shoot me a couple of shots at a decent shutter speed (no motion blur) at 8000 ISO at an evening event on the M240 and get back to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted February 8, 2017 Share #28 Posted February 8, 2017 IMO a Noctilux would be a waste of resources for the type of work you do. The increased ISO range and usable higher ISO's of the M10 would be worthwhile. I used to have the Mandler 50/1 and while I regret selling it (I regret selling every Leica lens at some point) I don't miss it much. I had the current Nocti as a loaner, and while it is one impressive piece of optical design, the size and weight penalty in addition to the cost might cure you of that desire. I have the 21/2.8 ASPH. Fantastic lens, although Tom A believed the SEM to be superior and other reports bear this out. I have owned and used every 21 since they were introduced, and maybe I am jaded, but they almost seem like a normal wide and not so much a super wide. Easy lens to use. Much more of a challenge is the 18. I own the ZM18 and it is fantastic. I had an 18 SEM on loan to do a write-up for Viewfinder. The wider angle of the 18 over the 21 is real and it would be noticeable for your work. From my testing, there is no real difference between the ZM and the SEM. In light of your work that you do, I would seriously consider the WATE. It covers all of your ultra wide bases all in one package, which really helps out in the field rather than several seperate lenses. I have considered giving up both the 18 and 21 for the WATE, but the M10 will come first. When I was working professionally, I had the MATE and two M6's. Came in very handy and worked well. I wish I still had that one too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share #29 Posted February 8, 2017 IMO a Noctilux would be a waste of resources for the type of work you do. The increased ISO range and usable higher ISO's of the M10 would be worthwhile. I used to have the Mandler 50/1 and while I regret selling it (I regret selling every Leica lens at some point) I don't miss it much. I had the current Nocti as a loaner, and while it is one impressive piece of optical design, the size and weight penalty in addition to the cost might cure you of that desire. I have the 21/2.8 ASPH. Fantastic lens, although Tom A believed the SEM to be superior and other reports bear this out. I have owned and used every 21 since they were introduced, and maybe I am jaded, but they almost seem like a normal wide and not so much a super wide. Easy lens to use. Much more of a challenge is the 18. I own the ZM18 and it is fantastic. I had an 18 SEM on loan to do a write-up for Viewfinder. The wider angle of the 18 over the 21 is real and it would be noticeable for your work. From my testing, there is no real difference between the ZM and the SEM. In light of your work that you do, I would seriously consider the WATE. It covers all of your ultra wide bases all in one package, which really helps out in the field rather than several seperate lenses. I have considered giving up both the 18 and 21 for the WATE, but the M10 will come first. When I was working professionally, I had the MATE and two M6's. Came in very handy and worked well. I wish I still had that one too! thank you for taking the time to reply and for also looking at my work! I have always been tempted by the WATE - but put off by the cost. I am sure I can find one used for a more reasonable price, but I do enjoy owning M glass from new. Cost-wise I think the WATE is out of my range, the M10 has seen to that - however I could possibly sell the 28 elmarit to part-fund it but that wont take much off.. tempted to get rid of my 90 APO 'cron but then the longest lens I'll have will be 50mm and I've been told the 90 on the M10 is much more of a joy to focus with etc than any previous M. So without selling anything I could get the 10mm CV which has had decent reviews and is extreme wide. Or the 18 SEM which would have the M glass signature but I read various things that are not all good about that lens. It's also another £1000 than the 10mm. Essentially - will the 16mm give me THAT much more over the 18 and is it worth the extra £2000 to have that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted February 9, 2017 Share #30 Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Exactly the same? No difference at all in the picture quality? Shoot me a couple of shots at a decent shutter speed (no motion blur) at 8000 ISO at an evening event on the M240 and get back to me. Just to add my 2 cents: the ISO's above 6400 on the M10 are unusable. The 3200 is OK, but noise is already apparent. On he M240, ISO 1600 was the most I used. There is a very informative review by Sean Reid regarding this and other aspects. Regarding your original question:I bought a Rigid Summicron and a 35/2.8 Summaron to go with my M246. I love those two lenses! Especially the rigid has a lower contrast but sharp! The Summaron is almost like a modern lens: contrast is higher and very sharp!. I love its results in color, too. And BTW: Congrats for your photos! Love them! Cheers Edited February 9, 2017 by horosu Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share #31 Posted February 9, 2017 Just to add my 2 cents: the ISO's above 6400 on the M10 are unusable. The 3200 is OK, but noise is already apparent. On he M240, ISO 1600 was the most I used. There is a very informative review by Sean Reid regarding this and other aspects. Cheers, So this would go against everything I've read from people using the camera in real life situations. Of course there is noise at 6400. There is on most cameras. It depends on whether you see a nice smooth filmic grain or horrible digital noise. If your marker is no nose and the cleanest digital image then you'd never be shooting above 800. On any camera out on the market today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted February 10, 2017 Share #32 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) So this would go against everything I've read from people using the camera in real life situations. Of course there is noise at 6400. There is on most cameras. It depends on whether you see a nice smooth filmic grain or horrible digital noise. If your marker is no nose and the cleanest digital image then you'd never be shooting above 800. On any camera out on the market today. I can send you some samples DNG at 3200 ISO to judge yourself (I had the camera fro an hour to play). As for ISO 6400, read Sean Reid's report and, for example, Erwin Puts assessement, here: http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/camera/styled-56/. Just wanted to say, that on my M246, the noise levels are lower Edited February 10, 2017 by horosu Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #33 Posted February 10, 2017 I can send you some samples DNG at 3200 ISO to judge yourself (I had the camera fro an hour to play). As for ISO 6400, read Sean Reid's report and, for example, Erwin Puts assessement, here: http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/camera/styled-56/. Just wanted to say, that on my M246, the noise levels are lower Sean says it's useable to 6400 and 1600 for critical. That's still 2 stops more than the m240 using the same standards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickieT Posted February 10, 2017 Share #34 Posted February 10, 2017 Lets go back to your lens question instead of arguing over ISO - I actually think that the better ISO capabilities of the M10 give you some nice options with older and slower lenses... First of all, I love my WATE and I have been able to buy one on display @ Leica at a great discount. I am sure there are more around including box and full warranty. You could consider the 28mm Summaron (I would go for the old one - love it!) - the signature is different from your Elmarit, but it is still a 28mm... Have you considered a 35mm? With the M10 you could go for the 35/3.5 Summaron and increase the ISO if you need the extra stop instead of buying the more expensive 2.8? For a few hundred Euro there are plenty of mint examples on Ebay. Or the 35/1.4 Lux pre-asph - the lens has a wonderful signature and is one of my favourites. Plenty of mint ones on Ebay for around Euro 1500. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 10, 2017 Share #35 Posted February 10, 2017 So this would go against everything I've read from people using the camera in real life situations. Of course there is noise at 6400. There is on most cameras. It depends on whether you see a nice smooth filmic grain or horrible digital noise. Not disputing terminology, but in my experience digital noise is entirely different from grain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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