New camera, time to go vintage?

[satureyes]

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So I've been thinking about the glass I've had over the years and wondering if there's something that I could or should add (or swap). I get this feeling every time I pre-order an M. So, this being the third time since I started with the M9, it's time for my lens envy/acquisition thoughts. 

 

I want to look at alternatives to the usual suspects.. so not the 21 SE, and the 35 'lux

 

I have the 50 'lux, 28 Elmarit and the 90 Cron

 

I was thinking of getting perhaps a vintage M lens and enjoying it's properties but I'm not too well versed in anything of old so I thought I'd ask the floor. If not vintage - then perhaps a current model. 

 

I also want to start by ruling out the Nocti. As much as I crave it, I think the cost is prohibitive. The only way I'd be able to consider it would be to sell a most of my glass and buy it. I don't think that's wise. 

 

I could sell my  90 'cron to fund another lens.  I never really seem to use it on my M240 but perhaps with the M10 and it's better and brighter and bigger RF it may get more use- plus the EVF is a little more friendly than the one on the M240. 

 

I am tempted by the WATE but I'd be buying it for the 16mm because I love shooting wide. I had a 12mm Voigtlander which vignetted like hell although a lot of fun so  I was considering the 10mm but fear the perspective distortion may be too much for accurate interior/room shots. 

 

The 18mm Super Elmar keeps calling but is 18mm wide enough? I shoot regularly at 14mm on my Canon. So perhaps the 18 wont be wide enough? 

 

I am also rather taken by the look and size of the 'new' Summaron but I don't really know if it's a gimmick that I can recreate in Photoshop or something that I can use to really differentiate my work. Plus I already have a 28

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

 

[Dirk Mandeville]

You mention your parameters, but don't speak about what you are looking to accomplish with this lens. What types of photographs do you want to make for which your current lenses are insufficient? You mentioned the 12 mm Voigtlander and the vignetting issues. Voigtlander has released new versions of the 10, 12, and 15 mm wides that are better designed for digital cameras, and I'm pretty sure Lightroom has profiles for them that pretty well take care of the vignetting and color cast issues. So that is something to consider as they are quite reasonably priced for a super-wide M lens. I have the 15 version II and plan on upgrading it to the new version, and may get the 10 or 12 as well. Regarding the Nocti, you could always consider the "poor man's Nocti" aka the Voigtlander Nocton.

 

As for vintage lenses, there are lots of options. I purchased a Summar awhile back, but haven't had a chance to play with it yet. It's supposed to have a very unique look. I have been wanting a vintage portrait lens as well, so just nabbed a 85mm f/1.5 Summarex. Can't wait to get my hands on that! So, I guess it really all depends on what you want you want to achieve with this lens purchase.

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[satureyes]

You mention your parameters, but don't speak about what you are looking to accomplish with this lens. What types of photographs do you want to make for which your current lenses are insufficient? You mentioned the 12 mm Voigtlander and the vignetting issues. Voigtlander has released new versions of the 10, 12, and 15 mm wides that are better designed for digital cameras, and I'm pretty sure Lightroom has profiles for them that pretty well take care of the vignetting and color cast issues. So that is something to consider as they are quite reasonably priced for a super-wide M lens. I have the 15 version II and plan on upgrading it to the new version, and may get the 10 or 12 as well. Regarding the Nocti, you could always consider the "poor man's Nocti" aka the Voigtlander Nocton.

 

As for vintage lenses, there are lots of options. I purchased a Summar awhile back, but haven't had a chance to play with it yet. It's supposed to have a very unique look. I have been wanting a vintage portrait lens as well, so just nabbed a 85mm f/1.5 Summarex. Can't wait to get my hands on that! So, I guess it really all depends on what you want you want to achieve with this lens purchase.

I guess I am just re considering the glass I have and looking back over the last few years at what I end up taking with me and never really using or wanting.

 

I shoot live events indoors and out and by resolution this year is to take my m out on paid jobs more than my Canons.

 

I love shooting wide. I am also often shooting interiors (room setups etc) so this is where the wide angle idea comes from.

 

The 28 summaron intrigues me but so does the 10mm CV.

[Dirk Mandeville]

For the cost and the unique angle of view, I think the CV superwides are a no brainer. There is a review somewhere on the web that compares the three lenses, with lots of good examples to show the varying angles of view and perspectives they produce. Might want to look for that.

[satureyes]

For the cost and the unique angle of view, I think the CV superwides are a no brainer. There is a review somewhere on the web that compares the three lenses, with lots of good examples to show the varying angles of view and perspectives they produce. Might want to look for that.

I have indeed seen them. The 10mm seems to be the one to go for.

 

No takers for the summaron?

[pico]

I have indeed seen them. The 10mm seems to be the one to go for.

 

No takers for the summaron?

 

No Summaron for me. I have been a super-wide angle lens enthusiast for almost fifty years. The Cosina-Voightlander 10mm is, for  me a  dream come true.

[Rick]

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WATE.  

[uhoh7]

Simple, considering what you already have:

 

8-element 35 cron. That's the one they rave about. Worth the same as a ASPH.

 

A pre-asph 35 Lux is also a lot of fun. Some crazy copy variation.

 

Modern 35s which are loved for character: ZM35/2.8

 

SEM 18 is incredible lens. Can't really go wrong with that. Best 18 in the world probably, so not really "classic", but beautiful. I'd like one to replace my beloved ZM18.

 

I see you do events wide:

 

CV21/1.8 is very good. 21 Lux better

 

ZM 21/2.8 is very good, and somewhat fast.

 

CV 15 v3 very good IF you have good copy. Big variation.

 

ZM 15/2.8 famous, fast, but no couple.

 

My widest M, the ZM18:

Next Step by unoh7, on Flickr

 

L1002847 by unoh7, on Flickr

U know I'm sure, but wider than 28, you have to deal with some extreme distortion on the sides at times, if you are closer.

Edited February 7, 2017 by uhoh7

[satureyes]

Simple, considering what you already have:

 

8-element 35 cron. That's the one they rave about. Worth the same as a ASPH.

 

A pre-asph 35 Lux is also a lot of fun. Some crazy copy variation.

 

Modern 35s which are loved for character: ZM35/2.8

 

SEM 18 is incredible lens. Can't really go wrong with that. Best 18 in the world probably, so not really "classic", but beautiful. I'd like one to replace my beloved ZM18.

 

I see you do events wide:

 

CV21/1.8 is very good. 21 Lux better

 

ZM 21/2.8 is very good, and somewhat fast.

 

CV 15 v3 very good IF you have good copy. Big variation.

 

ZM 15/2.8 famous, fast, but no couple.

 

I see reviews of the 18 SEM that say it's not so good? With horizontal issues of bulging or whatever. I assume that's the latest version that you mean?

[satureyes]

No Summaron for me. I have been a super-wide angle lens enthusiast for almost fifty years. The Cosina-Voightlander 10mm is, for me a dream come true.

So far it seems to be between the 10CV and the 18 SEM. And the price difference of £1000

[otto.f]

Apart from the wide-angles, I'm not such a wide guy myself, you're talking about indoor live events. How about the 75 Summilux? Because you find the Noctilux to expensive...

[satureyes]

Apart from the wide-angles, I'm not such a wide guy myself, you're talking about indoor live events. How about the 75 Summilux? Because you find the Noctilux to expensive...

I once had the 75 Cron. It was the only Leica lens I ever sold. Found it too close to the 50 Lux. I also have the 90 cron which is across the other side of the gap. Not sure I would use the 75 much (I barely use the 90)

[pgk]

You have an excellent set of three. Sounds like they are 'keepers'. A purely personal opinion but if I had the three lenses that you have I would try to add in the 21mm SEM. Its wider but not immensely so and performs stunningly. Copies are appearing secondhand at relatively viable prices and for me it is one of Leica's gems. Small, neat and extraordinary performance. I too have considered the 18mm but have to say that 20/21 is to me a sweet spot in focal lengths.

[satureyes]

You have an excellent set of three. Sounds like they are 'keepers'. A purely personal opinion but if I had the three lenses that you have I would try to add in the 21mm SEM. Its wider but not immensely so and performs stunningly. Copies are appearing secondhand at relatively viable prices and for me it is one of Leica's gems. Small, neat and extraordinary performance. I too have considered the 18mm but have to say that 20/21 is to me a sweet spot in focal lengths.

 

I think this too - I have had a 21 SEM before and it is stunning but I was thinking wider. 

I do a fair bit of interior work (event spaces pre-event) and some architectural. My issue with the 10mm Voigtlander at the moment is that the perspective is so crazy that I think it makes things look too out of proportion - so objects appear skewed. 

 

I'm wondering if the 18SEMwill give me much 'more' over the 21 SEM - and if it does would the perspective be more faithful than the 10mm (albeit much narrower FOV).

[LocalHero1953]

I have a 75 Summicron (yours, thank you), but I also have a 7.3cm Hektor f1.9; this is the only focal length where I have two lenses, because they are about as different as they can be. The Hektor is wonderful for those with less than perfect skin without being as obviously extreme as a Thambar.

It doesn't sound wide enough for you, but it certainly comes into the vintage/different category.

[satureyes]

I have a 75 Summicron (yours, thank you), but I also have a 7.3cm Hektor f1.9; this is the only focal length where I have two lenses, because they are about as different as they can be. The Hektor is wonderful for those with less than perfect skin without being as obviously extreme as a Thambar.

It doesn't sound wide enough for you, but it certainly comes into the vintage/different category.

 

AH Paul! Glad to hear it's still good for you with the 75! Only lens I ever sold. Jono never lets me forget that!

[honcho]

I'm not sure that the 28mm summaron will add anything to what you do, other than being able to say you have one.  The CV 10mm definitely, assuming the corners and edges are good on the M10.  I've seen for myself what it can do on an A7r11 and it's pretty good at the price.  The a-o-v between 10mm & 21mm is massive, as you know.  You're a creative and competent photographer and you seem to prefer extreme wide angles lenses (so do I), the CV10mm and 21mm SEM would be worth a close look.

 

ETA:  Interesting that you mention the extreme vignetting with the CV12.  Well, you'd expect it to and the easy solution if you have the ltm version is to use a centre nd grad to get out of having to deal with it in pp.  I have used the grad from my Schneider 47mm S-A XL that cleaned up the vignette nicely, but I actually like the way the CV12mm vignettes. Especially on film, it's part of the character of the lens and suits a lot of what I do.

Edited February 7, 2017 by honcho

[satureyes]

I'm not sure that the 28mm summaron will add anything to what you do, other than being able to say you have one.  The CV 10mm definitely, assuming the corners and edges are good on the M10.  I've seen for myself what it can do on an A7r11 and it's pretty good at the price.  The a-o-v between 10mm & 21mm is massive, as you know.  You're a creative and competent photographer and you seem to prefer extreme wide angles lenses (so do I), the CV10mm and 21mm SEM would be worth a close look.

 

Seems like the 10mm is the way to go. I assume you've peeked my work and I do love the extreme wides. 

 

Funny thing is that I always was a long lens person until I started thinking about my shots more and getting up close. I only really ever shoot long for conferences or concerts now. 

[honcho]

Seems like the 10mm is the way to go. I assume you've peeked my work and I do love the extreme wides. 

 

Funny thing is that I always was a long lens person until I started thinking about my shots more and getting up close. I only really ever shoot long for conferences or concerts now. 

 

BIPP?   I've seen you pop up there occasionally.  I've never owned a lens longer than 105mm and never used that one much!

Edited February 7, 2017 by honcho

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[SiOnara]

"I also want to start by ruling out the Nocti. As much as I crave it, I think the cost is prohibitive. The only way I'd be able to consider it would be to sell a most of my glass and buy it. I don't think that's wise. "

 

 

I have the 0.95 Nocti, really beautiful on the digital M's and great to shoot using the EVF for critical focus.  Used to have the f1 version too.  I would definitely recommend looking at a 50mm Summitar f2.  These old lenses have wonderful out of focus rendering that remind me of my old f1 Nocti.  Obviously it's not 100% the same but pretty damn good and at a fraction of the cost and weight!

Edited February 7, 2017 by SiOnara