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M series Portrait Lens 3 options - Advice please


HRJ

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Hello All

 

I have a 50mm, but would like something a bit longer for nice sharp portraits. Could I please ask, what are the views on the following 3 lenses. 

 

Either a new Summicron 90/2 APO or 75/2 APO or possibly a pre-owned Summilux 75/1.4 (built in hood). 

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

HJ

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I have all three of these and find the 75/1.4 a great portrait lens; wide open reasonably sharp in the center which gets sharper when closing down a couple of stops (and the zone of sharpness increases towards the edges). Obviously not as sharp as the other two, but a little softer may be the goal. Also, the bokah on the 75 lux is superb.

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Thanks all, that was exactly my thoughts.

 

Now then... 'lovely' or 'tack sharp'...  I love them both, of course, but sometimes, things are just meant to be sharp. :huh:

 

I wonder if stopping down to f4, would there be enough dof in the Summilux 75mm to get a decent sharp portrait, or does that lens really just come into it's own when used wider open for the more 'lovely' image?

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pre-asph 90 Cron considered by many the best Leica portrait lens. Cheaper, lighter and smaller than everything you mention except the 75 APO.

 

I have 75 Lux, but find it clinical for most portraits. It's very heavy also and high cost plus burden of inspection, and possible return.

 

In it's own way it's a masterpiece. Difficult for portraits at times, I think.

 

I shoot faces with many lenses. For me the most consistent has been the 50 Cron, v4, which has been a pleasant surprise, as it is tiny and versatile. :)

Edited by uhoh7
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pre-asph 90 Cron considered by many the best Leica portrait lens. Cheaper, lighter and smaller than everything you mention except the 75 APO.

 

I have 75 Lux, but find it clinical for most portraits. It's very heavy also and high cost plus burden of inspection, and possible return.

 

In it's own way it's a masterpiece. Difficult for portraits at times, I think.

 

I shoot faces with many lenses. For me the most consistent has been the 50 Cron, v4, which has been a pleasant surprise, as it is tiny and versatile. :)

 

 

Thanks for that. I'm assuming the 1957-1980 (v1) and then the 1980-1998 (v2) are the 90 Cron that you mean, as after 98 it all goes ASPH.

Of the 1980 version 2 there are redesigns on the hoods and mounts. do you know are the optics the same on 1980-1998?

 

Much thanks as these lenses are considerably cheaper to buy.

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Thanks all, that was exactly my thoughts.

 

Now then... 'lovely' or 'tack sharp'...  I love them both, of course, but sometimes, things are just meant to be sharp. :huh:

 

I wonder if stopping down to f4, would there be enough dof in the Summilux 75mm to get a decent sharp portrait, or does that lens really just come into it's own when used wider open for the more 'lovely' image?

Hi!

You can read the link from "a.noctilux" above for more detail of sharpness at wide open and stop down of M Lux 75.

My gear is SL 601, SL 24-90/ f2.8-4.0 ASPH and M Apo 50 f2.0. I found that M Apo 50 is too sharp for normal portrait (for my family) and I also need the beter rate of portrait as yours M 75 Apo, M 90 Apo. Finally, I have decided to get M Lux 75 and I am happy with this choice for portrait. It is good in low light, very nice bokeh, enough sharp at f1.4 and quite sharp at 2.0 and very sharp from 2.8 and stop down.

Good luck for getting the nice len for portrait!

Have a nice day!

Thanks!

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Now then ... 'lovely' or 'tack-sharp' ...  I love them both, of course, but sometimes things are just meant to be sharp.

So then get the Summilux-M 75 mm 1:1.4—it's kind of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde ... smooth-ish at wide apertures (f/1.4 - f/2.4) but tack-sharp from f/2.8 on. The modern 75 mm lenses (Summarit and Apo-Summicron) as well as the Apo-Summicron-M 90 mm Asph are tack-sharp at all apertures.

 

The Summicron-M 90 mm (no 'Apo', no 'Asph') also is superb for portraiture, similar to the 75 mm Summilux.

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So then get the Summilux-M 75 mm 1:1.4—it's kind of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde ... smooth-ish at wide apertures (f/1.4 - f/2.4) but tack-sharp from f/2.8 on. The modern 75 mm lenses (Summarit and Apo-Summicron) as well as the Apo-Summicron-M 90 mm Asph are tack-sharp at all apertures.

 

The Summicron-M 90 mm (no 'Apo', no 'Asph') also is superb for portraiture, similar to the 75 mm Summilux.

 

 

You have said what I have been thinking about using the 75 Lux. My only other point is a used 75 Lux is double the price of a used 90 Cron non Apo... and there are lots more 90mm's for sale. Problems, Problems....  :)

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First a question before I answer "Which Leica do you use ?"  ;)

 

Mainly 

 

I would bring up the Leica Tele-Elmarit 2,8/90 for a change.

 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/90mm-f28-tele.htm

 

Excellent optics and not as expensive and heavy as the other suggestions.  B)

 

Ah, now that I had not even considered. Will read up on that one. Many thanks

 

MP 240

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Thanks for that. I'm assuming the 1957-1980 (v1) and then the 1980-1998 (v2) are the 90 Cron that you mean, as after 98 it all goes ASPH.

Of the 1980 version 2 there are redesigns on the hoods and mounts. do you know are the optics the same on 1980-1998?

 

Much thanks as these lenses are considerably cheaper to buy.

 

So - technically - there were at least 2 minor optical variations even among the pre-1980 90 Summicrons. But they are all "true" 90mm lenses - they stick out 90mm from the film or sensor. I've never seriously considered them as an option, due to the size.

 

This is a silver pre-1980 - they came in black, too: http://vintage-camera-lenses.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Summicron_90_lens_6.jpg

 

The 1980-98 90mm Summicron is a complete redesign with "telephoto" construction that makes it much shorter - a whole different beast. Even a tad shorter than the 75 f/1.4. And yes, the optics stayed the same over the whole 1980-1998 run (coatings may have changed, though).

 

A similar "pose" of the 1980 design: http://www.adammarelliphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/M9-Plan-View-2.jpg

 

I consider it to be "the poor man's Summilux 75" because it has similar drawing - just less so. Less background blur (smaller aperture), slightly less dreamy bokeh wide-open, a stop less speed. Designed by Walter Mandler of Leitz Canada, just like the 75 f/1.4, and within a couple of years of the same date.

 

Now back to your original question - I would say it depends on how tight a portrait we are talking. 75mm is at the very short end of what I'd ideally use for portraits - you start to get big noses and chins if you try to move in for full face. But a nice focal length for more relaxed framing in the head-and-shoulders range.

 

In which case, I find the 75 Summarit to be every bit as sharp as the 75 Summicron (or any other Leica tele) - the Summicron only beats the Summarit in the very close range (1m-0.7m - thanks to its floating elements). If you want sharp, but not too tight a crop - either of those would be good portrait choices.

 

Among the 1980-vintage lenses - the 90 is sharper than the 75 Summilux when both are wide-open, the 75 lux is sharper than the 90 when both are at f/2. Neither is quite as crisp as the modern 75s until stopped down to f/4-ish or smaller (and even then, the extra contrast of the newer 75s makes them look even sharper).

 

For the sake of argument, attached is a portrait with the 75 Summarit f/2.5, and a crop for sharpness. At not too close a range. f/2.5, M9

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Edited by adan
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And here is a "journalistic" portrait with the 90 Summicron 1980 version, also M9, f/2.0.

 

Without getting too far down in the weeds, there were reasons I mostly used 75s on the M9, but certain features of the M10 make those reasons moot, so I have just acquired another 90 Summicron pre-APO, because I prefer the framing, quote-perspective-unquote and drawing (contrast, color and "just-enough" resolution).

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So - technically - there were at least 2 minor optical variations even among the pre-1980 90 Summicrons. But they are all "true" 90mm lenses - they stick out 90mm from the film or sensor. I've never seriously considered them as an option, due to the size.

 

This is a silver pre-1980 - they came in black, too: http://vintage-camera-lenses.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Summicron_90_lens_6.jpg

 

The 1980-98 90mm Summicron is a complete redesign with "telephoto" construction that makes it much shorter - a whole different beast. Even a tad shorter than the 75 f/1.4. And yes, the optics stayed the same over the whole 1980-1998 run (coatings may have changed, though).

 

A similar "pose" of the 1980 design: http://www.adammarelliphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/M9-Plan-View-2.jpg

 

I consider it to be "the poor man's Summilux 75" because it has similar drawing - just less so. Less background blur (smaller aperture), slightly less dreamy bokeh wide-open, a stop less speed. Designed by Walter Mandler of Leitz Canada, just like the 75 f/1.4, and within a couple of years of the same date.

 

Now back to your original question - I would say it depends on how tight a portrait we are talking. 75mm is at the very short end of what I'd ideally use for portraits - you start to get big noses and chins if you try to move in for full face. But a nice focal length for more relaxed framing in the head-and-shoulders range.

 

In which case, I find the 75 Summarit to be every bit as sharp as the 75 Summicron (or any other Leica tele) - the Summicron only beats the Summarit in the very close range (1m-0.7m - thanks to its floating elements). If you want sharp, but not too tight a crop - either of those would be good portrait choices.

 

Among the 1980-vintage lenses - the 90 is sharper than the 75 Summilux when both are wide-open, the 75 lux is sharper than the 90 when both are at f/2. Neither is quite as crisp as the modern 75s until stopped down to f/4-ish or smaller (and even then, the extra contrast of the newer 75s makes them look even sharper).

 

For the sake of argument, attached is a portrait with the 75 Summarit f/2.5, and a crop for sharpness. At not too close a range. f/2.5, M9

 

 

What a great post, full of detail, and thanks for your trouble. Much appreciated. Your 75mm example is the type of portrait I would be shooting. I think the 75mm probably is a bit too short for tighter portraits, or at least it would create less flattering portraits.

 

Of the Summicron 90mm's, If you had a choice of these two, on a current M shooting colour, from a purely sharpness and contrast opinion, would you pick a 1980-1998 version Non APO, or, a 2000+ version APO?

 

Or actually is your answer as in the next post - a non APO version 2 1980-1998 version.

 

My thanks in advance.

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