mkur Posted January 26, 2017 Share #1 Posted January 26, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, My M6 has just arrived and I am looking for my first M lens. My favourite focal length is 50mm and after reading far too many reviews and spending way too much time on flickr I have selected the Zeiss ZM Sonnar 50 1,5 as my first (and for a while only) lens. I really like the rendering, its small size and acceptable (at least for M standards) price. However, I am not fully convinced regarding the focus-shift issue. I am no beginner to manual focusing, however the M6 is my first rangefinder... Is this lens a good choice for M novices or should I look into other lenses? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 Hi mkur, Take a look here Sonnar 50 as first lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
TomB_tx Posted January 26, 2017 Share #2 Posted January 26, 2017 While focus shift is not as big an issue on film cameras (due to the emulsion thickness and the more limited pixel peeping you do with film), if you are new to rangefinders you will likely have some shots with focus errors anyway, just due to technique. You won't know which are due to technique and which are focus shift, and are likely to suspect the lens and be dissatisfied with it. I'd suggest the Planar, which has negligible shift and is a very sharp lens, besides being a bargain. Over the last 50 years I have used a few lenses on Leicas that are now noted for focus shift. I was generally happy with them on film, but not knowing about focus shift would sometimes have slight focus issues, always assuming it was my error, which it may have been. Using the same lenses on my M9 where the sensor is more particular about focus, I have a lower hit rate, but look more critically. End result is I don't trust those lenses as much, even on film. The Planar just works well on both film and digital. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted January 26, 2017 Share #3 Posted January 26, 2017 Be careful, all the replies you will receive will be about people recomending you what they use. The apo asph 8000$ owners will recomend you the apo asph. The jupiter users will recomend you the jupiter lens. Non-50mm users will recomend you a non-50mm lens. The only real advice I can give you is to use the lens you wish and use ot for a long time. Getting to know your particular gear goes a long way into being a true artist. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 26, 2017 Share #4 Posted January 26, 2017 I have the ZM 50/1.5 and like it much on digital mirrorless cameras but it shows a lot of focus shift indeed. No idea how it renders with film but i would not advise it to digital M users for this only reason. At this fast aperture, the only lenses i can advise are Leica Summilux asph and pre-asph 50/1.4 which are more expensive unfortunately. The CV 50/1.5 looks interesting but i have no experience with it at all. 50/2 lenses are another story. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwc852 Posted January 26, 2017 Share #5 Posted January 26, 2017 Rule 1: follow NB23's advise! Owning - or having owned - most of M-50s from Leica and Zeiss, I'd suggest to stay away from lenses with focus shift. Being able to rely on what you'll get is important! Your attention on stuff like focus shift does not help when taking a foto. And just because focus shift was not an obvious issue in the days of film-cameras does not mean it didn't exist. Film thickness does NOT compensate for focus shift of the C-Sonnar. My recommendation (at acceptable prices) is the Planar, followed by Elmar (latest version), Summarit or Summicron (in that order). To not be misunderstood: I like the C-Sonnar a lot; when carefully calibrated and used at f1,5 or f2 only. But not as my only 50! And in case it's OK to suggest a truly wonderful affordabel lens for the M6 at a different focal length: consider the C-Biogon 35. For a perfect combo ad a yellow-filter and a Tri-X to the mix. Or back to rule 1 :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkur Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted January 26, 2017 Thank you all for your very helpful suggestions. I have decided to postpone buying the Sonnar until I am fully comfortable with rangefinder focusing. Based on your input I am now considering the Planer with its know qualities and the CV Nokton 1.5 50 which has a more gentle rendering. Does anyone know if that Nokton exhibits focus shift? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted January 26, 2017 Share #7 Posted January 26, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have the CV 50mm f1.5 (amoungst others) and it is a great lens. I have not noted any focus shift with it. Beautiful in silver. I also have the Sonnar 50mm but unlike you it is on an M240. I do not trust my skills with the Sonnar & if I use it then it's with the EVF. However, I would/do trust the CV 50/1.5. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 26, 2017 Share #8 Posted January 26, 2017 I have both the Planar and CV 1.5. (Actually both the newer M version and the previous LTM version.) I've had better results with the LTM 1.5 than the M version. I had to have my M version focus calibrated, and it is better since. I can detect slight focus shift on it, but no more than with any fast lens. (I wouldn't notice it without careful testing.) Both are actually made by Cosina, so quality is good. I still tend to find results more to my liking with the Planar, but perhaps my old eyes just focus better with slower lenses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIago Posted January 27, 2017 Share #9 Posted January 27, 2017 I own the rigid and that lens is seriously good. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rus Posted January 27, 2017 Share #10 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) If you like the rendering, then I see no reason why you shouldn't just go for it. Focus-shift is a known issue with the design, but you can choose to have it calibrated to wide open or smaller apertures I think? So it depends on which aperture you'd most likely to use it at. In any case, having it properly calibrated to your most frequently used aperture will (largely) solve the problem brought by focus-shift. Edited January 27, 2017 by Rus Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted January 27, 2017 Share #11 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Thank you all for your very helpful suggestions. I have decided to postpone buying the Sonnar until I am fully comfortable with rangefinder focusing. Based on your input I am now considering the Planer with its know qualities and the CV Nokton 1.5 50 which has a more gentle rendering. Does anyone know if that Nokton exhibits focus shift? CV 50/1.5 popular M 50mm in the world. For good reason. Outstanding in every way. And I don't even own one. Get the M mount version, as it does seem to be better. I have a bunch of sonnars, they are fun. For one great 50 I'd take the CV 50/1.5. Puts tested it. Very very strong. Way beyond sonnar on the edges. Bokeh is excellent. Search flickr. Here is something you rarely see: the original 1955, in LTM. Worth a small fortune: 1950ish Voigtlander 50/1.5 original by unoh7, on Flickr Even looks good on A7r LOL Voigtlander 50/1.5 LTM orig by unoh7, much fungus But the modern one is even better Another secret: get the black one: 238 grams Edited January 27, 2017 by uhoh7 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted January 27, 2017 Share #12 Posted January 27, 2017 I have used the 50mm c Sonnar for about 6 years now. I use it on film and like it a lot. I have taken some of my favourite pictures with this lens. It loses contrast at open aperture and near minimum focus distance, so I only use there when I have to on account of the light. If this type of shot is your priority then there are probably better options. Although most lenses are most challened wide open and up close, some are less so than others. That said, I really love the look of the lens around f4 and middle to long focus distances. I think it unique in how it looks and I think it is especially well suited to black and white medium speed film. If that is your intended useage then I'd say go for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuck.kenney Posted January 27, 2017 Share #13 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I used Zeiss Sonnar C 1.5 for M8/M9 for a few months. First, the image quality was astonishing. Don't worry about not getting good images out of this lens. Second, the focus shift was real. But there was a simple fix: I sent the lens to Zeiss' German factory and asked them to optimize the focusing at f/1.5. They did that, fixed the focus shift, and didn't charge me. I only paid for shipping ($30-$40 US) and waited for 1-2 weeks. So, if you want to remove the focus shift, factor the shipping cost in your budget. Otherwise, don't be too concerned with the focus shift. Third, the real deal-breaker for me was the 0.9m minimum focusing distance, which was too long. Most lenses have minimum focus distances at 0.5 or 0.7. So, after using the other lenses, I found the 0.9m distance extremely unnatural. I think this is the real issue you have to think over. Unlike focus shift, you can't fix the 0.9m focus distance. BTW, I sold it to buy a Summilux. Then I sold the Lux and settled with a Summicron, because I rarely use f/1.4. The Cron has a 0.7m focus distance. And the 0.2m difference is noticeable. Edited January 27, 2017 by tuck.kenney Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 27, 2017 Share #14 Posted January 27, 2017 [...] Second, the focus shift was real. But there was a simple fix: I sent the lens to Zeiss' German factory and asked them to optimize the focusing at f/1.5. They did that, fixed the focus shift, and didn't charge me. I only paid for shipping ($30-$40 US) and waited for 1-2 weeks. So, if you want to remove the focus shift, factor the shipping cost in your budget. [...] Such a fix won't remove the focus shift unfortunately. When it is calibrated at f/1.5, the lens is sharper there but focus is still shifting at f/2 and above. Only way to avoid this is to focus with an EVF in my experience. BTW my ZM 50/1.5 is calibrated at f/1.5 as well. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuck.kenney Posted January 27, 2017 Share #15 Posted January 27, 2017 Such a fix won't remove the focus shift unfortunately. When it is calibrated at f/1.5, the lens is sharper there but focus is still shifting at f/2 and above. Only way to avoid this is to focus with an EVF in my experience. BTW my ZM 50/1.5 is calibrated at f/1.5 as well. Yes, but when you go above f/2, the depth of field is thick enough that you don't notice the focus shift. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted January 27, 2017 Share #16 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Good decision passing on the 1.5 ZM C-Sonnar as your first 50. Lovely lens: gentle for portraits wide open, very sharp as it's closed down, very compact, I like the bayonet hood, and of course it's much cheaper than anything Leica. However the focus shift is an issue also on film. I agree with ICT. Mine was also sent to Zeiss with free and fast optimization for f1.5 under warranty. That just moves the focus shift to mid distances at slightly smaller apertures. It takes some time to learn to correct for the shift and easy to forget when in a hurry. Also, remember that the aperture ring detents are in 1/3 stops whilst the shutter speed is in 1/2 stops which requires just a little more thought when quickly moving aperture and shutter speed in opposite directions. I finally sold mine with mixed feelings. Have you considered a second hand 50 Summicron? You should have no problems acquiring a mint lens with warranty from one of the more reputable dealers. Regards Mark Edited January 27, 2017 by MarkP 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 27, 2017 Share #17 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Yes, but when you go above f/2, the depth of field is thick enough that you don't notice the focus shift. Sorry but i do notice it at f/2 and f/2.8 mainly and i'm no pixel peeper... Edited January 27, 2017 by lct 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lax Jought Posted January 27, 2017 Share #18 Posted January 27, 2017 I sent the lens to Zeiss' German factory and asked them to optimize the focusing at f/1.5. They did that, fixed the focus shift, and didn't charge me. Did you buy your lens brand new? I was wondering whether they do that only for brand new lenses, and not for lenses bought 2nd hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuck.kenney Posted January 27, 2017 Share #19 Posted January 27, 2017 Sorry but i do notice it at f/2 and f/2.8 mainly and i'm no pixel peeper... Well, maybe it varies from copy to copy, but I didn't see focus shift at any aperture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuck.kenney Posted January 27, 2017 Share #20 Posted January 27, 2017 Did you buy your lens brand new? I was wondering whether they do that only for brand new lenses, and not for lenses bought 2nd hand. I bought mine 2nd hand form eBay. I didn't know if it was under warranty. I just sent it in and was expecting some kind of charge, but they didn't charge me anything. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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