Leica T focus disappointment

[oldwino]

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I took my T to the local Women's March along with the 23/2. I set my focus priority to face, and started snapping away. Lots of interesting characters with interesting signs. After a brief flurry of shots, I had a moment to review what I had gotten so far. Turns out I got about a 25% hit rate on focus. Lots of photos of people holding a sign up above their head, standing 10 feet in front of me, not moving, faces fully visible, and their face is NOT in focus. 

 

Disappointed, I switched to a single central focus point.  Now, my hit rate (focusing-wise) was about 75%, but still a disturbing number of shots where nothing seemed to be in focus.  Seems like the camera will fire even if focus isn't locked?

 

Seems like my T, with the latest firmware update, still focuses very slowly. Or least not quickly enough to use in a reportage type environment. And the face priority focus is just a joke. It didn't work properly once.

 

When the camera did nail focus on my intended subject, the files look great. But, honestly, I could have done way better with my M overall.

 

 

 

[Volbeat]

Sorry to hear the T let you down.

I didn't even know there was a 'face-focus' mode. Wouldn't even have considered looking for such a thing.

It will indeed fire even if focus is not locked. At the risk of teaching you how to suck eggs, slow down a bit and wait for the focus confirmation, then your in focus rate will be 95%+. The blurry exceptions will be mainly due to slow shutters rather than truly missing focus.

The T is awesome but it is what it is and that's not a DSLR sports machine. But it is great for reportage (see Louis's set for example).

 

Cheers,

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[oldwino]

Well, the face detect IS there, and would have been great for my situation, but it doesn't work. At least not the way I would expect something called "face detection" to work. 

 

And there should be a way to set the camera up so it doesn't fire unless focused. 99% of the digital cameras out there can do this. 

 

I have the suspicion that the T was released too early, or with insufficient funds for development. It seems a little half-baked. I think they were maybe too enamored by the design, and forget what the device is supposed to do. I mean, for the money, you should at least be able to keep with with a Fuji X camera, no?

[bencoyote]

Well, the face detect IS there, and would have been great for my situation, but it doesn't work. At least not the way I would expect something called "face detection" to work.

 

And there should be a way to set the camera up so it doesn't fire unless focused. 99% of the digital cameras out there can do this.

 

I have the suspicion that the T was released too early, or with insufficient funds for development. It seems a little half-baked. I think they were maybe too enamored by the design, and forget what the device is supposed to do. I mean, for the money, you should at least be able to keep with with a Fuji X camera, no?

No I think it is more of a priority thing. If you want the shutter to activate NOW DAMNIT (because otherwise you'll miss the decisive moment) you want the camera to be responsive.` I'm going to be less charitable the other people and say, it isn't the camera's fault that you took bad pictures. It did exactly what you told it to do and you screwed up, you didn't wait for focus lock and verify that it had picked the right thing to focus on.

 

Furthermore, if things were out of focus what distance were you at in relation to your subject and what aperture were you using? Quite a lot of street photography and reportage is done at F/8. For a lens with the FOV of the 23mm a working distance of about 1.5m-2m is reasonable. At 1.5m f/8 everything from 1-3m should be in focus and at 2m it is everything from 1.2m to 6.4m. That is a lot of DOF, so if things are out of focus, it is user error.

 

If you were trying to do something like isolate your subject with a narrow DOF by using F/2, what were you doing using a 23mm lens on ASP-C sensor camera?

 

Quit trying to blame a machine for your own failings as a photographer.

Learn to use your tool and know how it works including all the subtle details like how the color changes when it has focus lock.

Practice on things you don't care about so that you learn the ins and outs and make the mistakes and learn from them before you are in a situaion where the shots are important to you.

 

I just got my T back from repair after it was in Allendale for the past 5 months, during the intervening time I've been using my M pretty much exclusively. The thing that I _LOVE_ about the M is that it is so basic and manual that there is never an opportunity to blame a bad shot on the camera. It is always you the photographer who screwed up. (I screw up a lot.) The camera has plenty of capability so if you aren't getting the results that you want, the solution is "learn to be a better photographer". Even though there is a bit more software involved pretty much the same is true with the T, the solution is always "learn to better photographer" because you are the one whose in control of the machine.

 

(My shots from the woman's march and inauguration protest https://goo.gl/photos/zgvwjM3BQ5ENPAK76 )

Edited January 25, 2017 by bencoyote

[ropo54]

(My shots from the woman's march and inauguration protest https://goo.gl/photos/zgvwjM3BQ5ENPAK76 )

 

 

Terrific portfolio from the protest march!

Thanks,

Rob

[Louis]

(My shots from the woman's march and inauguration protest https://goo.gl/photos/zgvwjM3BQ5ENPAK76 )

 

 

Terrific portfolio from the protest march!

Thanks,

Rob

 

+2

Really nice!

[oldwino]

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No I think it is more of a priority thing. If you want the shutter to activate NOW DAMNIT (because otherwise you'll miss the decisive moment) you want the camera to be responsive.` I'm going to be less charitable the other people and say, it isn't the camera's fault that you took bad pictures. It did exactly what you told it to do and you screwed up, you didn't wait for focus lock and verify that it had picked the right thing to focus on.

 

Furthermore, if things were out of focus what distance were you at in relation to your subject and what aperture were you using? Quite a lot of street photography and reportage is done at F/8. For a lens with the FOV of the 23mm a working distance of about 1.5m-2m is reasonable. At 1.5m f/8 everything from 1-3m should be in focus and at 2m it is everything from 1.2m to 6.4m. That is a lot of DOF, so if things are out of focus, it is user error.

 

If you were trying to do something like isolate your subject with a narrow DOF by using F/2, what were you doing using a 23mm lens on ASP-C sensor camera?

 

Quit trying to blame a machine for your own failings as a photographer.

Learn to use your tool and know how it works including all the subtle details like how the color changes when it has focus lock.

Practice on things you don't care about so that you learn the ins and outs and make the mistakes and learn from them before you are in a situaion where the shots are important to you.

 

I just got my T back from repair after it was in Allendale for the past 5 months, during the intervening time I've been using my M pretty much exclusively. The thing that I _LOVE_ about the M is that it is so basic and manual that there is never an opportunity to blame a bad shot on the camera. It is always you the photographer who screwed up. (I screw up a lot.) The camera has plenty of capability so if you aren't getting the results that you want, the solution is "learn to be a better photographer". Even though there is a bit more software involved pretty much the same is true with the T, the solution is always "learn to better photographer" because you are the one whose in control of the machine.

 

(My shots from the woman's march and inauguration protest https://goo.gl/photos/zgvwjM3BQ5ENPAK76 )

 

You're right - I did screw up. I expected the T to work somewhat as advertised. I should have taken one of my Ms, and I almost did, but I wanted to try out the new one. Definitely not the right choice there, at least for me, on this day. 

 

Nice shots, by the way. 

[Belle123]

What I would suggest, before blaming the camera, is test it out before it matters. You will understand it better and know it's not lightening fast and patience is needed. If you want fast, put up a few thousand more bucks at minimum for a Q or SL. The T is what it is. I don't demand too much of it. You work with what it can do, and it will please some and not others. I prefer shooting manual with M lenses on it and never fails. I do the focusing and fast at it. But I also have a Q and it is what I would have taken in your situation.

[tom0511]

I can understand the disappointment and also hope for a future-T-boy with better/faster AF.

On the other side if you get used to the camera a little it should be a problem. you said you would have a much better hit rate at this event with an M. So you could have allways switch the T to manual focus if you believe that's faster than the AF.

I find the face detection works fine if subjects are not fast moving. 25% hit rate (just) doesn't sound right for me if people were just walking and not running. Maybe something wrong with your camera?

Anyways - C-AF is not really usable but S-AF is not that bad. Its not a sports camera-that's for sure.

If you want that in a EVF-camera a Oly Em1 or a Leica SL should be much faster. But the EM1 doesn't offer the IQ of the T (and is nearly the same size lenses) and the SL if 4 times the price of the T.

[Guest VVJ]

IMO the focus is pretty fast now and spot focus is pretty accurate.  What I would like to see:

 

• a more responsive body, i.e.. a faster and more powerful processor
• an easy way to change spot focus.  Changing via touch screen is pretty cumbersome compared to changing focus via a joystick as on the SL.  Because of that I tend to focus and recompose

[jevidon]

"Face focus" is an unreliable gimmick on most cameras that have it. If more than one face at different distances, which face will the program choose? Is there some anomaly in the scene that the camera will unreliably recognize as a face? You can achieve better results using the single point setting on your T or TL. Put the focus point on the face, half press the shutter button, recompose and shoot. It has never failed for me on any camera including my Leica T.