Fuji Medium format released in the USA $6,499

[wlaidlaw]

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I agree that David Farkas was correct in 2014 but two and a bit years later, I am not so sure. Things move very fast in the digital photography world. When Hasselblad is using their pixel shift technology to produce theoretical 200MP images on the H5D-200c and Phase one has 100MP backs, 37.5MP looks marginal to compete in the studio photography business. I had a quick play last week with a Phase One XF 100MP camera with the 55mm Schneider Kreuznach lens. I was surprised how light it was and it felt only a little heavier than my SL and 24-90. 

 

Wilson

[tom0511]

This following quote is the only thing we do know at this point but things may have changed by now anyway. I would be happy with 60 but I would certainly prefer 80MP if I'm considering this system, given that resolution upgrades have been very slow coming and are likely to be in future - that is one of the main things that has stopped me buying all along.

 

Bear in mind the 3:2 format generally needs more cropping to 3:4 standards so more is better for that reason too.

 

From reddotforum: 

 

Stephan’s take on the matter was that he doesn’t think that users’ real issue is about actually needing more pixels. The difference between 40 and 50 MP is roughly a 10-15% increase in linear resolution, hardly earth shattering. He feels strongly that for there to be a noticeable increase in image quality, the jump would have to be more significant, say from 40 to 60 or possibly even to 70 MP. He believes the underlying concern is that users of a system want to feel theirs is the most advanced, the most future-proof.  By staying at 37.5 MP while the competition is all going to 50 MP, Stephan thinks that the concern of some Leica S users is that somehow their camera is outclassed, or worse, outdated. I thought for a moment about this then ran a quick list of features in my head, innovations and advantages of the S 007 vs. the competition.

 

aspect ration might be an important factor as well for choosing one over the other. As you write you loose pixel when cropping 2:3 to 3:4. However you also loose pixels when you crop 3:4 to 2:3. So it depends also whats your most used final aspect ratio.

I agree with your last sentence. For me it comes down to

- 3:4 vs 2:3 sensor

- Viewfinder

- quality and rendering of lenses ( we know Leica is excellent, we expect Fuji to be excellent, but the rendering could very well be different. When I had Leica M and Fuji X-Pro1 I know what I preferred)

- Handling

- Service

 

The reports so far do not tell much about the camera IMO other than first impressions/feelings. I am looking forward to read experience from people using the system for a while.

For me as an S user already owning body and lenses I see no reason to be interested to switch, but for people looking for a new system it sounds interesting and competition is always good, also some price competition doesn't hurt

- Reliability

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[Paul J]

I agree that David Farkas was correct in 2014 but two and a bit years later, I am not so sure. Things move very fast in the digital photography world. When Hasselblad is using their pixel shift technology to produce theoretical 200MP images on the H5D-200c and Phase one has 100MP backs, 37.5MP looks marginal to compete in the studio photography business. I had a quick play last week with a Phase One XF 100MP camera with the 55mm Schneider Kreuznach lens. I was surprised how light it was and it felt only a little heavier than my SL and 24-90. 

 

Wilson

 

I agree. I have used the IQ3 100 and it is truly mind blowing. Handheld even in low light is not a problem and with extraordinary detail. I would say it is the ultimate tool at this stage.

 

Bear in mind the next S was was probably being designed around this time in 2014,  so unless they are going for an under promise over deliver I think it's probably a good indication of what we are going to see. i might be happy with 60-80MP but of course will take as much possible. Once a design process has begun I don't think it would be possible to change too much without seriously effecting launch time and I think time is getting pretty critical now.

 

As for the IQ100 it's only available on Hasselblad and Phase/Mamiya platforms. I have been using the Hasselblad H platform for a long time now and while it has got much much better with the H5 and better still with the H6 (I personally prefer it to the Phase XF) , I still have the same feelings about the lenses though. I would prefer the S lenses any day and if they can get their act together with service and reliability then the overall package and form factor is very good and something I think I would prefer. I might take a 60-80MP S over a 100MP Hasselblad or Phase One, personally, but I will consider all options when we are presented with one. But it is actually more easy for me to go with my existing Hasselblad/Phase.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Paul J

[erlingmm]

For those of you who compare with 100 mpix P1, are you aware that this back costs close to 45k Euro ? (in Norway)

What price point do you think S should aim for to get a sweet spot with sufficient market?

[Paul J]

For those of you who compare with 100 mpix P1, are you aware that this back costs close to 45k Euro ? (in Norway)

What price point do you think S should aim for to get a sweet spot with sufficient market?

 

 

For existing owners with an established S kit this is obviously a no brainer.

 

For existing owners with an established blad or phase kit, it's different.

 

It certainly makes more sense just to get the IQ350 if you want 50MP on a crop back with incredible high IQ. And compared with buying an entire S kit it's not an outrageous stretch to upgrade to the IQ100 if your business can afford it.

 

I can't say what I'd pay yet until it's ready, if it's viable, it's its right, what the cost of exchange would be and how much I want it.

 

There needs to be an incentive to move to the S, they most definitely need to iron out all reliability issues to begin with and show some real commitment to their owners and products.

 

But being a small company that appears to be stretched to its limit they may not be interested in gaining market share, just maintaining what they have.

[xiaubauu2009]

Well P1 is about 200k RMB here in China, it's quite a lot more expensive than the S. I only use it with Technical Camera  and find the IQ second to none. But It is preferably used on tripod, so I think camera such as Leica S or GFX is still quite useful to have. You suffer a little for IQ, but you gain so much versatility and durability. However, IQ3 100 is a very good tools using handheld, pairing it with Alpa 12TC body and a small ultra wide Rodenstock HR23mm... makes me feel like I am using an SWC...

 

Alpa 12STC + HR23

Somewhere in Tokyo... handheld walking...

 

[John McMaster]

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The P1 back has the advantage of being usable on both SLR (XF) and technical cameras....

 

john

[Paul J]

The P1 back has the advantage of being usable on both SLR (XF) and technical cameras....

 

john

 

and mirrorless - alpa etc Modularity has an awful lot going for it.

[Paul J]

Well P1 is about 200k RMB here in China, it's quite a lot more expensive than the S. I only use it with Technical Camera  and find the IQ second to none. But It is preferably used on tripod, so I think camera such as Leica S or GFX is still quite useful to have. You suffer a little for IQ, but you gain so much versatility and durability. However, IQ3 100 is a very good tools using handheld, pairing it with Alpa 12TC body and a small ultra wide Rodenstock HR23mm... makes me feel like I am using an SWC...

 

Alpa 12STC + HR23

Somewhere in Tokyo... handheld walking...

 

 

Nice shots, Cracking IQ, very immersive. I was amazed using the IQ100. Low light, handheld, crazy good IQ.

 

Just a quick price up and to get something like I have in my Hasselblad kit I would have to spend about £42K. So the 100 backs are quite viable if you come from that perspective.

 

I could use my Hasselblad lenses on the S but that would defeat the purpose for me.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Paul J

[Guest VVJ]

Leica has never lead the megapixel race, and 50+ mpix seems to be the new "plateu" for this sensor format, where I would expect the S to position itself.

That means competing with Phase One, Hasselblad (H6D and X1D) and Fuji though...

 

If Leica wants to survive in that space they will IMHO need to step up their game considerably.

 

I was reading some first impressions of the X1D today.  A year from now once the 7 lenses are available and most of the firmware bugs have been ironed out it is going to be an attractive platform and much more affordable than the S...

 

I am not saying that Leica cannot get some momentum going again for the S but if they stick to their back seat approach of recent years it is destined to fail. 

 

The S user group is too small and a new body alone (with more MP) is IMHO not going to change that.

Edited March 3, 2017 by JorisV

[xiaubauu2009]

Nice shots, Cracking IQ, very immersive. I was amazed using the IQ100. Low light, handheld, crazy good IQ.

 

Just a quick price up and to get something like I have in my Hasselblad kit I would have to spend about £42K. So the 100 backs are quite viable if you come from that perspective.

 

I could use my Hasselblad lenses on the S but that would defeat the purpose for me.

 

 

I find the IQ3 100mp to have superb DR in the highlight area. The 15bit DR is pretty good.

The 16bit colour though, I am still find it hard to get it to where I want. Leica S was much better.

[R3D-D0T]

xiaubauu2009, those shots are incredible. Don't feel bad about selling my S for an order of Phase One one bit now

[eprom]

S and Phase One are hard to compare and two different systems. I work as a people photographer and I can´t hardly Immagine working with a Phase One-system because of handling and speed. I don´t need 80MP or more and it would be hard to handle the amount of data when every shot has approx. 80MB while shooting up to 1.000 shots a day.

 

Best,

Peter__

[alan.y]

 

Alpa 12STC + HR23

Somewhere in Tokyo... handheld walking...

 

This is Ueno Station, near Ueno Park with all the museums

[xiaubauu2009]

xiaubauu2009, those shots are incredible. Don't feel bad about selling my S for an order of Phase One one bit now

 

Well, if you want absolute IQ then PhaseOne with one of them Rodenstock HR lens will do the trick.

[xiaubauu2009]

picked up the GFX today. Only pair it with the zoom lens.

[helged]

picked up the GFX today. Only pair it with the zoom lens.

 

 

Fell free to provide us with your impressions...

[xiaubauu2009]

Fell free to provide us with your impressions...

 

feels like a bigger version of XT1...

 

Doesn't feel like a MF...

[xiaubauu2009]

Haven't shot much yet with the GFX+32-64, but the weight is well balance, ergonomics wise I prefer S. but tilting screen is a welcome. The EVF is not as good as the SL, but the magnification is huge. Build quality is good, well made, Material is good, just that if you compare magnesium alloy to magnesium alloy, Leica S probably use a thicker alloy, making it feel dense.

 

IQ from the 32-64 so far looks good. It's a 2 times zoom, so it's less complicated should I say and also has the benefit of technology advancement in lens design compare to the Vario-Elmar S30-90. The image looks better than the Leica Zoom particularly in corners. Thread size is 77mm so it should be plenty easy to fit a filter in front. My next lens down the list will be the 120 with image stabiliser and 23mm ultra wide... not going to go for standard lens as I think will use adaptor for Contax 645 lens....

 

The Sensor is pretty standard 50meg Sony sensor used by all other MF company. This one is the latest iteration with electric shutter. Can expect good DR from it from my experience with Credo 50.

 

One thing I don't like is the rear dial, it's set too far in and I have a medium size hand and it feels bit out of place. And the body is litter with buttons that you can configure to anything, not a straight forward business like S. I think am just too use to using only 4 buttons + 1 dial... So, ergonomics wise, Leica is still ace...

 

Anyway, this is Leica S forum, not Fuji.

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Hallo,

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