AAK Posted January 20, 2017 Share #21 Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) So how long do you think it will take before the M10 video version comes out? Hopefully never. Edited January 20, 2017 by AAK Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Hi AAK, Take a look here So how long before video capture functionality arrives?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tsleica Posted January 20, 2017 Share #22 Posted January 20, 2017 Problem is...this M10 is probably close to the end of the development line for the Leica M ...because for stills only shooters..it's at least 90% perfect.. So in a year or 2..when sales on the M10 start dipping ...and only miniscule future upgrades are possible..unless they start overhauling the body design entirely..which I personally would relish..as in..make it lighter out of magnesium or carbon fiber and a more ergonomic shape.. So..as a major future upgrade.. Video will have to be implemented in an M10 camera sooner or later..which is precisely why I wont pony up 6.5K for this cam..w/o a good video function..which I need daily.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted January 20, 2017 Share #23 Posted January 20, 2017 Problem is...this M10 is probably close to the end of the development line for the Leica M ...because for stills only shooters..it's at least 90% perfect.. So in a year or 2..when sales on the M10 start dipping ...and only miniscule future upgrades are possible..unless they start overhauling the body design entirely..which I personally would relish..as in..make it lighter out of magnesium or carbon fiber and a more ergonomic shape.. So..as a major future upgrade.. Video will have to be implemented in an M10 camera sooner or later..which is precisely why I wont pony up 6.5K for this cam..w/o a good video function..which I need daily.. I don't see video coming to the M10. The decreased size of the battery would limit the usefulness of the camera for video. The M10 meets the needs of those who wanted a smaller camera (like the traditional film M cameras) for pure photography. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 20, 2017 Share #24 Posted January 20, 2017 There is an M camera with video capture functionality available, and right off the shelf too. It's called "M". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 20, 2017 Share #25 Posted January 20, 2017 Hopefully never. Why hopefully? Leica will not force you to buy it. That you do not want does not imply that you can forbid others to enjoy something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDR Posted February 21, 2017 Share #26 Posted February 21, 2017 Has anyone here considered the D-Lux 109 as a video camera to supplement an M10? I'm one of those who like what's being written about the M10, but am worried about losing the video function on my M240 and MP 240. The D-Lux 109 has 4K video, but the sensor is half the size of the M10. It would be one more thing to carry, but it's fairly small. Is anyone else thinking about this? Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjxism Posted February 21, 2017 Share #27 Posted February 21, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't use the video function on M240 much. Totally about 3 mins clips shot during 2 years of use. I can live without it, but it's a nice to have. What I don't get is why some people will feel insulted if Leica chooses to include this function. Does including video make M10 less desirable? Will including video affect the still picture capability of the camera? If you don't want that function, simply don't use it. No one can blame anyone who wants this function while everyone pays over 6K for the camera. It's really sick to see people bashing(or at least imply) others who want the function are less "pure", less "qualified" Leica user. It doesn't really seem technically impossible to include video feature to M10 with the current set up. I don't need to update where the tech world has been developed now. If Leica lacks the resource to implement the function, fine, they are a small company after all. But if Leica receives enough complaints and decides to include the function in an FW update, it's definite a good thing. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share #28 Posted February 21, 2017 What I don't get is why some people will feel insulted if Leica chooses to include this function. Does including video make M10 less desirable? Will including video affect the still picture capability of the camera? If you don't want that function, simply don't use it. No one can blame anyone who wants this function while everyone pays over 6K for the camera. It's really sick to see people bashing(or at least imply) others who want the function are less "pure", less "qualified" Leica user. It doesn't really seem technically impossible to include video feature to M10 with the current set up. I don't need to update where the tech world has been developed now. If Leica lacks the resource to implement the function, fine, they are a small company after all. But if Leica receives enough complaints and decides to include the function in an FW update, it's definite a good thing. One of the reasons I am buying the M10 is that is does not have video functionality or a button for me to accidently press. I am not insulted that others cannot live without video. For my amateur video I have my telephone. Equally I don't denigrate people with their wish to have video, I am just pleased that Leica have an M model without video, as I think this is not a camera made with video in mind and would never make a great video camera. The SL makes a better stab at video capability. I only ever used the facility once to try it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share #29 Posted February 21, 2017 Has anyone here considered the D-Lux 109 as a video camera to supplement an M10? I'm one of those who like what's being written about the M10, but am worried about losing the video function on my M240 and MP 240. The D-Lux 109 has 4K video, but the sensor is half the size of the M10. It would be one more thing to carry, but it's fairly small. Is anyone else thinking about this? Tim It all hangs on whether you want video for. Also not many stills enthisuiasts make great videos, well none I have known me included. That is why I steer clear of video. If I really must I use my phone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted February 21, 2017 Share #30 Posted February 21, 2017 So how long do you think it will take before the M10 video version comes out? This will never happen. Possibly, the M11 or M12 might feature video again ... but I wouldn't hold my breath. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2017 Share #31 Posted February 21, 2017 I don't use the video function on M240 much. Totally about 3 mins clips shot during 2 years of use. I can live without it, but it's a nice to have. What I don't get is why some people will feel insulted if Leica chooses to include this function. Does including video make M10 less desirable? Will including video affect the still picture capability of the camera? If you don't want that function, simply don't use it. No one can blame anyone who wants this function while everyone pays over 6K for the camera. It's really sick to see people bashing(or at least imply) others who want the function are less "pure", less "qualified" Leica user. It doesn't really seem technically impossible to include video feature to M10 with the current set up. I don't need to update where the tech world has been developed now. If Leica lacks the resource to implement the function, fine, they are a small company after all. But if Leica receives enough complaints and decides to include the function in an FW update, it's definite a good thing. Leica has access to Panasonic technology, who implement exeedingly good video in their products. I have lived in Germany long enough to recognize an Ausrede when I see it. "Our customers don't want it" should be read as "It was dropped because we could not get it to work for technical reasons". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lax Jought Posted February 21, 2017 Share #32 Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) I know Leica is continuing with the M240 for now but it never occurred to me that the M series could be split into two lines to accommodate video and non-video versions. I really don't mind primes for video, would expect dials and settings that make filmmaking easier, as well as the expected improvements in ISO performance. The only main thing I'd want in an updated M240 for video would be IS. *edited - Come to think of it, I think I'd need a number of further improvements - significantly improved rolling shutter, some form of slo-mo at full frame so at the very least 60fps, and some kind of log for post. And now that I've had a think about it, I can't imagine Leica would ever bother with these features for an updated M240. They'll do it for the SL but I can't imagine why they'd want to go through the trouble of doing it for an M. Having said that, if Leica ever did pull it off for an M240 Mk II that will have amazing video features as well as allowing me to utilise the traditional RF M, that would be an M I would jump on. The thickness or the weight of the M240 doesn't bother me one bit. If Leica never produced another M with video, I'd be ok with it too. I've been asking for the M10 for a very long time and Leica finally produced it. Edited February 21, 2017 by Lax Jought Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Q Wong Jr. Posted February 21, 2017 Share #33 Posted February 21, 2017 So how long do you think it will take before the M10 video version comes out? Never, I hope. (My apologies to those who need video but don't want to buy an SL.) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lax Jought Posted February 21, 2017 Share #34 Posted February 21, 2017 Never, I hope. (My apologies to those who need video but don't want to buy an SL.) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I'd jump on the SL if it provided significant improvements over video offerings from the Sony A7s series, or the Panasonic GH series. But as it stands, there's just no real reason to buy the SL for video. However, if Leica provided video versions of the M line that allowed me to use the RF function as well as decent video, I'd jump on that. It wouldn't hurt any of the Leica purists if the main M line stayed true to traditional RF photography. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 21, 2017 Share #35 Posted February 21, 2017 Doesn't the M(240) do that already? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lax Jought Posted February 21, 2017 Share #36 Posted February 21, 2017 Doesn't the M(240) do that already? OP probably means the M240 but with M10 improvements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share #37 Posted February 21, 2017 Well I am with those that wouldn't mind if Leica pretty much dropped the video capabilities in the M range of cameras. It barely produces decent HD, video needs a good EVF which isn't available at this time and maybe never, the M's also have horrible rolling shutter and frankly it's an awkward form of camera to use to shoot video. All being said I grant that for an "emergency video" use maybe it has some fleeting value, but for anything serious or for my usage for any occasion, no. As many have said here, an iPhone is a far better option and gives better results to boot. Video capability nowadays should be 4K internal at a minimum, and that's not going to happen with the M's, Panasonic has the truly great GH4 and now the GH5 at nearly a third of a cost of a M, I use a 4 and have the 5 on order and if I would want to I can use my Leica glass with an adapter. Whilst on about the GH's I have to say that their EVFs are every bit as good as the SL's and the camera functions are extremely well thought out too. So, for me Leica can let the M series video just fade away..........but wouldn't it be nice if the M's video button could, once disabled, be assigned a more useful function?......I know, we've asked for that before! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lax Jought Posted February 21, 2017 Share #38 Posted February 21, 2017 Well I am with those that wouldn't mind if Leica pretty much dropped the video capabilities in the M range of cameras. I agree with the issues you raised about the M's video. But how would it affect the stills M users if Leica produced a separate M line that included video, much like how Leica now maintains the M240 as well as the M10? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2017 Share #39 Posted February 21, 2017 Well I am with those that wouldn't mind if Leica pretty much dropped the video capabilities in the M range of cameras. It barely produces decent HD, video needs a good EVF which isn't available at this time and maybe never, the M's also have horrible rolling shutter and frankly it's an awkward form of camera to use to shoot video. All being said I grant that for an "emergency video" use maybe it has some fleeting value, but for anything serious or for my usage for any occasion, no. As many have said here, an iPhone is a far better option and gives better results to boot. Video capability nowadays should be 4K internal at a minimum, and that's not going to happen with the M's, Panasonic has the truly great GH4 and now the GH5 at nearly a third of a cost of a M, I use a 4 and have the 5 on order and if I would want to I can use my Leica glass with an adapter. Whilst on about the GH's I have to say that their EVFs are every bit as good as the SL's and the camera functions are extremely well thought out too. So, for me Leica can let the M series video just fade away..........but wouldn't it be nice if the M's video button could, once disabled, be assigned a more useful function?......I know, we've asked for that before! I feel the same about Panasonic's offerings*, but the problem for my use is that with the fading away of the video the rlevance of the M series as a travel camera fades away as well. * Yes, one can use Leica glass on Panasonic bodies, but the 2x crop factor takes away too much from the wideangles. The best one can do is to get down to 30 mm equivalent by the DG Summilux 15, lenses like the 21 and 24 Summiluxes M turn into standard focal lengths. It is an advantage on long lengths, obviously. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted February 21, 2017 Share #40 Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Well I am with those that wouldn't mind if Leica pretty much dropped the video capabilities in the M range of cameras. It barely produces decent HD, video needs a good EVF which isn't available at this time and maybe never, the M's also have horrible rolling shutter and frankly it's an awkward form of camera to use to shoot video. All being said I grant that for an "emergency video" use maybe it has some fleeting value, but for anything serious or for my usage for any occasion, no. As many have said here, an iPhone is a far better option and gives better results to boot. Video capability nowadays should be 4K internal at a minimum, and that's not going to happen with the M's, Panasonic has the truly great GH4 and now the GH5 at nearly a third of a cost of a M, I use a 4 and have the 5 on order and if I would want to I can use my Leica glass with an adapter. Whilst on about the GH's I have to say that their EVFs are every bit as good as the SL's and the camera functions are extremely well thought out too. So, for me Leica can let the M series video just fade away..........but wouldn't it be nice if the M's video button could, once disabled, be assigned a more useful function?......I know, we've asked for that before! I feel the same about Panasonic's offerings*, but the problem for my use is that with the fading away of the video the M series as a travel camera fades away as well. * Yes, one can use Leica glass on Panasonic bodies, but the 2x crop factor takes away too much from the wideangles. The best one can do is to get down to 30 mm equivalent by the DG Summilux 15, lenses like the 21 and 24 Summiluxes M turn into standard focal lengths. It is an advantage on long lengths, obviously. If there is enough of a market, then I think it would be good for Leica to make an M with video capabilities. I would just like to see them do it right. For me that means have at least three ports on the camera, mic in, headphones for audio monitoring, and HDMI (small connector is fine) out. I would also want to see 4K capability (at least with a recorder) and it would make sense to make it direct read out using a Super 35 format like the SL. It also needs to have 24/25 fps, and should have some type of log to aid processing. Leica does make the 21, 24, 28, and 35 luxes and the 50 Nocti adapted for video with clickless apertures and focus gears (they do charge about $2,000 for this which is a quite high price, but it is Leica so what can we expect). Such a camera could do very good video and I think it could be M240 sized. What I want to see is that if Leica offers something it does so at least reasonably well. I would like to see it be at least a B+. One of the things I like very much about the M10 is that it does everything it does at least reasonably well. I think the rangefinder is an A (as it should be in this camera). The EVF is not state of the art, but I think it is that solid B+. The live view is also a solid B+. On shoe flash, another solid B+. Lenses, an A+. The sensor, another solid B+. Responsiveness of the camera another solid B+. Size of the camera, a nice A-. Long exposures, it doesn't really offer them, but within the scope they do even the silly decision not allow people to shut of long exposure noise reduction isn't too bad. So, it does everything well. Perhaps other will disagree with me about these grades, but I like that what the M10 offers it does well and that is very different in my view than the M240, which by my grading would get lots of C's and D's for some of the things it offered. So, if they do make a new M that has video functionality I would like to see them do it well (at least a B+), and in doing so not hurt too much any of the other functions of the camera. I think that is possible in an M240 sized body, and if there is a market for such a camera then I hope they make it. I won't be part of that market, however. Edited February 21, 2017 by Steve Spencer 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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