ECohen Posted January 8, 2017 Share #1 Posted January 8, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm just not happy with the Skin tones on the M-P240, too red, too saturated sometimes too magenta. I'm shooting Raw and using ACR. Also Im only using modern Leica lenses.I could use LR but my current workflow doesn't include LR........any help is welcome. I just cant get them balanced to my liking, easily (neutral a little more warm). I've not yet created a profile, mostly because the amount changes due to lighting variables like, Sun/Shade/Studio. Every shooting situation seems produce a different undesirable result on skin tones.....but in the same general direction I have only been using the 240 for about 2 years or so. I love the sharpness of the lenses and generally the color work I shoot, I can work with ....but the delicate look of skin tones I'm finding very difficult to achieve. I've used many cameras from different manufactures and they seem to be profiled more neutral. When I was working professionally (retired now) I had a similar problem with Hasselblad /Imacon. Where it took a lot of work to get natural color. That problem was solved by firmware profile updates from the manufacture. I don't think I'm going to see that from Leica at this point.The other day I found myself grabbing a Nikon for a few simple portraits because the color on people was easier to achieve. And on this particular project I just wanted to get it done. I have to figure out a system to get better more natural skin tones, I prefer everything else regarding the Leica system and am trying to make the 240 my only camera. I'm looking for a simpler life.I don't mind working hard to figure out a system....I could some guidance....please I know this subject has come up before but in searching this forum it was last discussed 5 15 2016 .......maybe there has been more experimentation on the issue. Maybe somebody has create a profile they world like to share with us? As always THANK YOU for your help and advice Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 Hi ECohen, Take a look here Skin tones with the M-P240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
cirke Posted January 8, 2017 Share #2 Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) I use a linear profile for lightroom and capture one and skin tones are okhttp://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-input-5-en/ Edited January 8, 2017 by siangue 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 8, 2017 Share #3 Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) The M240 received a lot of criticism here for skin tones when it first came out (the M9 was far worse). Like some others, I created my own dual illumination profile, and devised LR colour corrections that dealt with the problems: typically too red/magenta on caucasian skins. As I recall these included shifting the red hue towards orange and reducing red and magenta saturation, and occasionally increasing red luminance. As Leica released new firmware and Adobe improved their profiles, I found the skin tones to rendered OK; not as good as the SL's skin tones and AWB, but acceptable for most lighting conditions and for all except the most difficult skins. I tried an IR cut filter for a while, but by that time the s/w and f/w improvements had kicked in; it didn't help with extreme skins, for which I make the colour adjustments I mention above. Edit. As to the cause, I have always attributed it to an interaction between the M's sensitivity to IR (though less than the M8 and M9), lighting which has a high IR component and particular skin types with capillaries close to the surface. But I don't claim special expertise in this area. Edited January 8, 2017 by LocalHero1953 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
becker Posted January 8, 2017 Share #4 Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) Did You try out different RAW Konverters ? Did You try manual WBA ? Skintones is something which was always a pitty on digital Leicas ( oc except the Monos, which are the ultimate answer on all colour problems arrived with digital Leicas.) Its also a matter of taste for shure, but I was disappointed too on WBA and skintones, so I left Leica digital behind. Those horrible reddish and wrong skintones in the Picture Section here to see are legendary, not every of course , but very much are simply bad. Stunning ! But its You taking the picture and being the one who is responsible for it. Leica makes reference 50 mm lenses, but not ones which helps to get out reference skintone quality ;-) Edited January 8, 2017 by becker 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted January 8, 2017 Share #5 Posted January 8, 2017 I know it's an upheaval of your workflow but you might want to download the trial version of Capture One. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 8, 2017 Share #6 Posted January 8, 2017 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I'm just not happy with the Skin tones on the M-P240, too red, too saturated sometimes too magenta. I'm shooting Raw and using ACR. Also Im only using modern Leica lenses.I could use LR but my current workflow doesn't include LR........any help is welcome. I just cant get them balanced to my liking, easily (neutral a little more warm). I've not yet created a profile, mostly because the amount changes due to lighting variables like, Sun/Shade/Studio. Every shooting situation seems produce a different undesirable result on skin tones.....but in the same general direction I have only been using the 240 for about 2 years or so. I love the sharpness of the lenses and generally the color work I shoot, I can work with ....but the delicate look of skin tones I'm finding very difficult to achieve. I've used many cameras from different manufactures and they seem to be profiled more neutral. When I was working professionally (retired now) I had a similar problem with Hasselblad /Imacon. Where it took a lot of work to get natural color. That problem was solved by firmware profile updates from the manufacture. I don't think I'm going to see that from Leica at this point.The other day I found myself grabbing a Nikon for a few simple portraits because the color on people was easier to achieve. And on this particular project I just wanted to get it done. I have to figure out a system to get better more natural skin tones, I prefer everything else regarding the Leica system and am trying to make the 240 my only camera. I'm looking for a simpler life.I don't mind working hard to figure out a system....I could some guidance....please I know this subject has come up before but in searching this forum it was last discussed 5 15 2016 .......maybe there has been more experimentation on the issue. Maybe somebody has create a profile they world like to share with us? As always THANK YOU for your help and advice I had the same problem. Try this preset. I can send it to You, if You send me Your Mailadress. Elmar 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I had the same problem. Try this preset. I can send it to You, if You send me Your Mailadress. Elmar ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268079-skin-tones-with-the-m-p240/?do=findComment&comment=3181929'>More sharing options...
dasjak Posted January 8, 2017 Share #7 Posted January 8, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) use capture one, problem solved... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted January 8, 2017 Share #8 Posted January 8, 2017 The problem can only be solved with a professional linear profile Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) I know it's an upheaval of your workflow but you might want to download the trial version of Capture One. Please explain ...Why is Capture One different/better than the Adobe products ACR/PS?........for neutralizing the Leica M240 skin tones? True enough I would like an easy fix. I sincerely appreciate your help Edited January 8, 2017 by ECohen Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2017 Share #10 Posted January 9, 2017 Because Capture One has a skintone balance tool. However, I find that the best results can be had by using an IR cut filter and using the Colorchecker Passport. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share #11 Posted January 9, 2017 Because Capture One has a skintone balance tool. However, I find that the best results can be had by using an IR cut filter and using the Colorchecker Passport. Do you test each situation with Leica WB eye dropper too and Grey Card? Sorry for needing specifics but these Flesh tones are really off and unpleasant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2017 Share #12 Posted January 9, 2017 No, I use the Colorchecker to make a profile. I have a whole series by now of different types of light. If I cannot get the skintone just so I move over to C1. The problem with skin is that it is multilayered, each layer has its own IR character, and it is not uniform in colour. However, when we look at a person our brain will record a more or less uniform colour. The camera records the colours as they are objectively, hence the unnatural look. Add the IR issue and you have your problem. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 9, 2017 Share #13 Posted January 9, 2017 There are many skin types and Jaap is right with this: "However, when we look at a person our brain will record a more or less uniform colour. The camera records the colours as they are objectively, hence the unnatural look." But I do not agree with him that using IR cut filters is useful. I tried but could not see a difference. The use of the Colorchecker wasn´t useful to me too. My profile above is a good starting point, similar to the Colors of C1. If You then play with the Hue-Slider (in German "Farbton") of red You will get good results. Elmar Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2017 Share #14 Posted January 9, 2017 Try shooting a portrait under high IR content light. It obviously makes a difference. The Colorchecker is nothing but a tool that basically does the same as your profile, just more objectively and with less experimenting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted January 9, 2017 Share #15 Posted January 9, 2017 When I made a Profile with the colorchecker (same with SpyderCheckr) the skintones stayed as bad as before. The improvement started, when I corrected the Red-Hue Slider by Hand. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2017 Share #16 Posted January 9, 2017 I'll file this under YMMV. I'm sure your manual profile works as well, and better for you As we are trying to create a subjective result, there will be varying methods and outcomes. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellisson Posted January 9, 2017 Share #17 Posted January 9, 2017 I use Lightroom as shown in the post by Elmars. First I adjust white balance if needed. Then I adjust red, orange and yellow to get the result that looks most natural to me, and this is confirmed in prints. Using the colors and luminance sliders, you can find the settings you like and save them, then adjust further if needed. It does not take long. Thorsten Overgaard discusses this in his LR tutorial. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 9, 2017 Share #18 Posted January 9, 2017 No problem re skin tones with C1 under the 'linear response' curve generally. The 'Leica M240 generic' profile is a bit colder than the 'Leica M240 generic V2' so you should find the default setting you prefer rather easily but nothing replaces a good custom profile obviously. Agree with Jaap about IRs. The M240 is not immune from them so if you did not sell the IR-cut filters of your M8, if any, would be a good idea to try them on your M240 when the light contains much IR or to replace some so-called 'protecting' filters as i used to do when my M lenses did not sit half the time on non Leica bodies. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 9, 2017 Share #19 Posted January 9, 2017 When I made a Profile with the colorchecker (same with SpyderCheckr) the skintones stayed as bad as before. The improvement started, when I corrected the Red-Hue Slider by Hand. I quite agree with this. These days I can almost always get it right simply by moving the red-hue slider to the right - the amount varies, so it's hard to make a profile, on the other hand, if it works for you it's pretty simple. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted January 9, 2017 Share #20 Posted January 9, 2017 Are you guys correcting for screens or prints? If for screens other than your own, I'd say that would be impossible - they're all different. You can have no control over that. For print, after a couple of tests easy to get right. I use the Cap1 & full Photoshop Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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