robert blu Posted January 7, 2017 Share #1 Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Is a Leica ME a valid solution for an M7 shooter desiring to try a digital camera similar to his film camera? It's 2017 and the new M will be here in a short time, I know. Shooting more B&W than color, interior available light (F2 - iso 400/800 - 1/30") and portrait. My dealer has one at a reasonable price, one year warranty, and if I do not like it I could resell without loosing too much money...a little bit like a long term renting! Concerned about sensor: how can I know if there is the new "no delaminating" sensor in it? I know in case of delamination Leica will change it but I wouldn't like to be without the camera in my testing experience time! robert Edited January 7, 2017 by robert blu Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Hi robert blu, Take a look here ME in 2017. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Robert M Poole Posted January 7, 2017 Share #2 Posted January 7, 2017 Is a Leica ME a valid solution for an M7 shooter desiring to try a digital camera similar to his film camera? It's 2017 and the new M will be here in a short time, I know. Shooting more B&W than color, interior available light (F2 - iso 400/800 - 1/30") and portrait. My dealer has one at a reasonable price, one year warranty, and if I do not like it I could resell without loosing too much money...a little bit like a long term renting! Concerned about sensor: how can I know if there is the new "no delaminating" sensor in it? I know in case of delamination Leica will change it but I wouldn't like to be without the camera in my testing experience time! robert As long as you don't need the frame selector or USB port (I've never used either on my m9), you like CCD images and you don't care about the colour of the m-e I'd say it's a good choice. You could check the firmware version to see if it's the latest sensor. I'm sure someone else will confirm this. Or ask the dealer, my m9 came with paperwork to say it had been replaced (with the old sensor) failing that ring Leica who should be able to tell you. I love my m9 and really don't have a desire to upgrade to the m 240 or m10. It has it's quirks sure but still a fine camera. Would they let you borrow it for an hour or so? www.robertpoolephotography.com 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denys Posted January 7, 2017 Share #3 Posted January 7, 2017 Agree with what Robert has said. Firmware 1.204 indictates the generation 2 sensor. Go ahead - and ENJOY! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted January 7, 2017 Share #4 Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) I bought the ME new in 2012 and added a first gen monochrom in 2015. Fwiw, I love the M9 platform although I recognize it has limitations compared to the M240 platform. If I were you, I'd try to get an M240 as it is superior in most respects. If you're set on the ME, that's fine as I shoot mine regularly and have no plans to upgrade. In this case I'd make sure you got one that has had the sensor changed. There's no sense in buying one with a sensor that might delaminate at any time. Edited January 7, 2017 by AceVentura1986 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antigallican Posted January 7, 2017 Share #5 Posted January 7, 2017 hi aceventura, i'm intrigued by your comment abt the M240 v M9. I have an M9 but wonder how the 240 is superior (no troll I promise). i use a Nikon D810 for all that giant file capable of low light stuff. I keep the M9 because i love using it snd people like the look of pictures coming out of it. ive always put that down to the sensor but maybe Im wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim0266 Posted January 7, 2017 Share #6 Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) Last year I wrote a review of the M262 comparing it to the M-E that may be of interest when comparing these two generations. Edited January 7, 2017 by jim0266 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frase Posted January 7, 2017 Share #7 Posted January 7, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) hi aceventura, i'm intrigued by your comment abt the M240 v M9. I have an M9 but wonder how the 240 is superior (no troll I promise). i use a Nikon D810 for all that giant file capable of low light stuff. I keep the M9 because i love using it snd people like the look of pictures coming out of it. ive always put that down to the sensor but maybe Im wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I pretty much do the same thing I have kept my M9 and instead of upgrading that I bought a Nikon Df. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Poole Posted January 7, 2017 Share #8 Posted January 7, 2017 ...get an M240 as it is superior in most respects. There's no sense in buying one with a sensor that might delaminate at any time. On the first point. Though technically superior the CCD sensor has a quality the m240 doesn't. A friend pointed out to me that there are websites showing how to make m240 files look like m9 files but not visa versa (YMMV) Second point. There is an advantage to buying one with the old sensor; I've had my m9 for a year and a half and it's developed dead pixels, I'll send it off at some point and get the sensor replaced and get a free CLA from Leica (I'm hoping they'll give me a loaner when it's away) www.robertpoolephotography.com 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted January 7, 2017 Share #9 Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) hi aceventura, i'm intrigued by your comment abt the M240 v M9. I have an M9 but wonder how the 240 is superior (no troll I promise). i use a Nikon D810 for all that giant file capable of low light stuff. I keep the M9 because i love using it snd people like the look of pictures coming out of it. ive always put that down to the sensor but maybe Im wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The M240 platform is more weather resistant than the M9 platform, has a longer battery life, quieter shutter without the rewind cranking sound, better high ISO, more dynamic range, live view and an external electronic viewerfinder as well. Also, all the M9 (original) sensors will delaminate and some will also crack. The M240 doesn't experience these catastrophic failures. Spec for spec, the M240 is a better camera. Now, that said I own two cameras in the M9 platform and none in the M240 platform. I am also aware many people prefer the CCD look to that of the CMOS sensor. FWIW, I experienced the same thing migrating from the original canon 1D (CCD) to the 1D Mark II (CMOS). To me, the CCD sensor in the 1D just gave a much more vibrant look at based ISO than the 1D2 CMOS sensor. Perhaps that's reflected in the two Leica platforms as well. Either way, you can't go wrong with an M9 variant provided you get one at a good price and with a warranty. I'd look for new-old stock, i.e., a camera that has never been sold before or a refurb, preferably with a new sensor. Edited January 7, 2017 by AceVentura1986 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted January 7, 2017 Share #10 Posted January 7, 2017 Last year I wrote a review of the M262 comparing it to the M-E that may be of interest when comparing these two generations. Excellent article. Thanks for sharing. I neglected to mention the superior LCD screen in the 240 platform. The ME screen is laughable when compared to the screen on my Canon 6D, btw. It's interesting that the ISO quality trails off at 3200 and at 1600 and below is comparable to the M9. FWIW, I've pushed my first gen Monochrom to 12,800 in Lightroom. While it is grainy, it has a classic BW look that I really like. Still, I have no plans to upgrade any of my cameras. The ME, the Mono, and the 6D serve different purposes but are excellent in their own ways. Of course, YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antigallican Posted January 8, 2017 Share #11 Posted January 8, 2017 Thanks for answers! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 8, 2017 Share #12 Posted January 8, 2017 Considering that you shoot mostly black and white, I would highly recommend a first generation Monochrom (CCD sensor). You will absolutely fall in love with it and it opens up new dimensions as far as low-light shooting is concerned. Shoot film for color with your M7. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Bachmann Posted January 8, 2017 Share #13 Posted January 8, 2017 While we don't have enough judgement to talk about the technical abilities and features of the M10, we can be pretty sure it will cost at least double of what you will get an M9/M-E for. But even if the M240 were the same price as an M9/M-E/CCD mono, I would not have any hesitation on purchasing an M9. It is a personal choice, but for me, I am content with the M9 and still recommend it. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted January 8, 2017 Share #14 Posted January 8, 2017 Considering that you shoot mostly black and white, I would highly recommend a first generation Monochrom (CCD sensor). You will absolutely fall in love with it and it opens up new dimensions as far as low-light shooting is concerned. Shoot film for color with your M7. This is another consideration. If you do shoot mostly BW and if you have a color camera as well, then the first gen mono is a fantastic buy. Fwiw, I love mine and am always impressed by its tonality. I usually shoot only at base 320 or at 1600 bc I've found the files can easily bear being pushed three stops but will not bear too much highlight recovery. Consequently, you want to preserve the highlights and worry about the shadows in post. My M9M is by far my favorite camera ever. Also, the first gen mono generates 14-bit files while the second gen is limited to 12-bit. In real world applications, though, this might not matter too much. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share #15 Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) Thanks you all for the interesting opinions. Yes, the Monochrome first gen could be an idea, actually a little bit more expensive where I live by reputable dealers (around 4 K EUR against 3 K of the ME) an more difficult to find, one was just sold a few days ago!). The real point is that I'm not so sure how I will commit to digital...but having a small 6 years old X1 I found that specially when traveling a film camera with iso 100 film in and a small digital for interior shot (iso 800/1600) is a very convenient combo ( I know, many film purist will be horrified by this, sorry). Ok this is MY problem I find interesting that many people prefer the M9/ME to the 240 ... Thanks again robert Edited January 8, 2017 by robert blu 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markforce Posted January 9, 2017 Share #16 Posted January 9, 2017 The M240 platform is more weather resistant than the M9 platform, has a longer battery life, quieter shutter without the rewind cranking sound, better high ISO, more dynamic range, live view and an external electronic viewerfinder as well. Also, all the M9 (original) sensors will delaminate and some will also crack. The M240 doesn't experience these catastrophic failures. Spec for spec, the M240 is a better camera. Now, that said I own two cameras in the M9 platform and none in the M240 platform. I am also aware many people prefer the CCD look to that of the CMOS sensor. FWIW, I experienced the same thing migrating from the original canon 1D (CCD) to the 1D Mark II (CMOS). To me, the CCD sensor in the 1D just gave a much more vibrant look at based ISO than the 1D2 CMOS sensor. Perhaps that's reflected in the two Leica platforms as well. Either way, you can't go wrong with an M9 variant provided you get one at a good price and with a warranty. I'd look for new-old stock, i.e., a camera that has never been sold before or a refurb, preferably with a new sensor. The M9 was my first Leica, purchased in 2010. Still running on the original sensor. I am still in love *as and when* it shines, read: in good light conditions, and where I find color is (still) more appropriate a criteria. Challenges kick in above ISO640 but at that level the camera still manages to produce decent files. Handling and all with the M have become second nature (I do not own any DSRL anymore -- sold to fund the M9). That said, I added the M246 about a year ago. While at first the camera felt slightly awkward operating, I really started to get the hang of it. Like, really. At gunpoint, I would agree that the 240 platform is a 'better' camera altogether. Mind you I am a pure stills photographer, never even tried using video. Pretty much carefree use up to ISO6400 I would say from a non-pixel-peeping/technical perspective. In an M240 I would recommend the M-P with its larger processor. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosophos Posted January 10, 2017 Share #17 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) The ISO limitations of the M9/M-E sensor are somewhat overstated. I routinely "push" ISO 640 M9 files in LR to effective ISOs of 2500 (and beyond) with more pleasing/natural results than what I get out of my Nikon DSLRs: https://prosophos.com/2014/12/12/birthday-girl-3/ https://prosophos.com/2014/11/10/hockey-girl-in-action/ Peter. Edited January 10, 2017 by Prosophos 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted January 10, 2017 Share #18 Posted January 10, 2017 The ISO limitations of the M9/M-E sensor are somewhat overstated. I routinely "push" ISO 640 M9 files in LR to effective ISOs of 2500 (and beyond) with more pleasing/natural results than what I get out of my Nikon DSLRs Yes, my experience w the ME is that I can push 640 to 2500 and on the first gen Mono I can push 1600 to 12,800. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Poole Posted January 10, 2017 Share #19 Posted January 10, 2017 Yes, my experience w the ME is that I can push 640 to 2500 and on the first gen Mono I can push 1600 to 12,800.Is the m9 iso-less above 640? I've been using this is the highest and pushing in post recently www.robertpoolephotography.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted January 11, 2017 Share #20 Posted January 11, 2017 Is the m9 iso-less above 640? I've been using this is the highest and pushing in post recently www.robertpoolephotography.com I treat it as such. Essentially, I set the ISO up to 640 and anything beyond that I just punch in Lightroom. In my first gen Monochrom, I'll set it up to 1600. Beyond that, I rely on Lightroom. Check out this link: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/213316-m9-iso-performance-new-life/ 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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