Jump to content

SL and wildlife ?


Bohns

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi everybody.

 

From what you will read after, ones may think I am turning crazy or just another GAS victim.

Anyway, here it is...

 

I am the owner of quite good gear which I use mainly for wildlife and landscape while hiking. It is made of a fairly new Canon 1DX mkII with a 100-400 mkII, a 16-35 f4 and a 24-105, plus my jewel of the crown 300 f2.8 with both extenders (1.4x and 2x).

 

14 months ago, I bought an M-P 240 and made a kit with a SEM 21, a CRON 35 ASPH, a LUX 50 ASPH, and a CRON 75 ASPH, all bought used but in a mint state.

 

While I am quite clear that although the M is almost perfect for travel and landscape, it is not well suited for my wildlife image hunting hobby, and I have to cope with 2 different systems. But my best photos since last year, wildlife put aside, clearly came from my rangefinder use. By far !

 

Since I admitted this fact, I am wondering whether selling all my Canon gear to buy a SL with both zooms and the M to SL adapter would not be relevant to rationalize in a single Leica system. But here are my concerns :

1) what about the SL AF for wildlife, and most specifically BIF ? There are no real review of the SL for such use. Are there some members of the forum which may deliver some feedback here ?

2) shall I bet that Leica will one day release some APO extenders, or consider that the max AF reach will remain 280 mm, which is quite limited with a 24x36 sensor for a wildlife use unless the sensor is very tolerant to cropping. Any experience from current SL users ?

3) what about the weatherproof claim when using M lenses on the SL ?

4) as soon as M lenses are coded, do we benefit from the DOF info on the top screen, or is it specific to SL lenses ?

5) what about the real (from field) battery life ?

 

Thank you for your insights,

Stef.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1. The single shot AF on the SL is excellent. fast and silent. Coming from a 1Dx2 you will not be happy with the CAF.

2. Don't make any bets on Leica until you see a roadmap. And there's no long primes for at least 2 years.

3. M lenses have excellent tolerances and are quite robust but not like the SL lenses. With the SL lenses I have literally run a hose over the camera.

4. No. Coding only provides lens model number. Focus and aperture are not electronically coupled. Lenses do have DOF scales on them.

5. It's more about time powered up than shots taken with mirrorless. I get 4-600 shots from a battery in normal use.

 

A few things:

 

a. The 24-90 is better than your 24-105. The 90-280 is the best medium tele zoom with AF available today.

b. There is a 16-35 coming. For now the WATE (M lens), Canon 11-24, Sigma 12-24 Art and your current wide will AF with the Novoflex adaptor.

c. The EF 300 you have works with the SL, BUT the AF is horrid so forget normal use. Plus no IS. Manual focus only. The 100-400 might be OK but the 9-280 is a far better lens anyway.

d. Ultimately the SL isn't a BIF and wildlife system (yet??). You could sell your gear except the 300 and extenders and get an 80D. That's your long kit and the SL plus its zooms and M primes for up to 280.

 

Gordon

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon is right.

 

I would add that if you cannot afford the whole SL system in one purchase, I would keep the 100-400 buy a Novoflex adaptor and purchase only the 24-90mm

In any case BIF with Canon (Lens and Body)  will be vastly superior than with the SL with current lenses which is only good for static subjects. 

One more data point is that the Novoflex adaptor does not support IS for Canon lenses, only the diaph and distance can be managed through the body. 

The DOF digital scale on the SL displays with the Canon lenses but is not accurate. Infinity is not infinity so difficult to use for hyperlocal...

Not impossible to do as long as you identify the distance on the SL that is infinity for any given canon lens... This could have been implemented in a better way by Novoflex.

This DOF scale does not works with M lenses.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everybody.

From what you will read after, ones may think I am turning crazy or just another GAS victim.

Anyway, here it is...

I am the owner of quite good gear which I use mainly for wildlife and landscape while hiking. It is made of a fairly new Canon 1DX mkII with a 100-400 mkII, a 16-35 f4 and a 24-105, plus my jewel of the crown 300 f2.8 with both extenders (1.4x and 2x).

14 months ago, I bought an M-P 240 and made a kit with a SEM 21, a CRON 35 ASPH, a LUX 50 ASPH, and a CRON 75 ASPH, all bought used but in a mint state.

While I am quite clear that although the M is almost perfect for travel and landscape, it is not well suited for my wildlife image hunting hobby, and I have to cope with 2 different systems. But my best photos since last year, wildlife put aside, clearly came from my rangefinder use. By far !

Since I admitted this fact, I am wondering whether selling all my Canon gear to buy a SL with both zooms and the M to SL adapter would not be relevant to rationalize in a single Leica system. But here are my concerns :

1) what about the SL AF for wildlife, and most specifically BIF ? There are no real review of the SL for such use. Are there some members of the forum which may deliver some feedback here ?

2) shall I bet that Leica will one day release some APO extenders, or consider that the max AF reach will remain 280 mm, which is quite limited with a 24x36 sensor for a wildlife use unless the sensor is very tolerant to cropping. Any experience from current SL users ?

3) what about the weatherproof claim when using M lenses on the SL ?

4) as soon as M lenses are coded, do we benefit from the DOF info on the top screen, or is it specific to SL lenses ?

5) what about the real (from field) battery life ?

Thank you for your insights,

Stef.

Stef ... here is a bunch of my simple thoughts.

I can relate to your questions as there are similarities between us.

 

I've been a very long time Canon shooter.

My interests: BIF, birds in general, and wildlife, in addition to sport, street, portrait, landscape and documentary.

 

I stopped upgrading Canon gear with the 1D4 – as you'd know, it's a 1.3 crop sensor – gives me the extra reach for wildlife.

Sold all Canon lenses but the EF 300 2.8L II IS + 1.4x + 2x and have kept the 1D4 for wildlife only to afford to buy into the Leica world.

 

Bought SL a year ago.

 

Shoot with the SL day to day with a lot of M-mount primes: 10, 15, 24, 35, 50, 90, and the SL 90-280 zoom. Love this.

The 90-280 beats the Canon's 70-280 2.8L II IS in every respect. Fantastic lens. It's weather sealed on SL. Although the SL is CDAF not PDAF, this zoom is focusing very very fast. Tracking is not its forte though. Not in the sense it can with Canon. Other than this, it's one of my best lenses I ever owned.

 

I shoot anything requiring reach and fast AF with the 1D4 and the one Canon super tele with extenders. But 1D4 has been in storage most of the last year since I bought the SL. Haven't used it much, enjoy SL a lot more.

 

SL can be used for wildlife but no BIF or birds in general because this application requires reach, a lot of reach, typically 500mm+ as you would know. Although birds can be shot with manual focus, BIF require fast AF and tracking. It's not what SL is strong at.

 

There is no universal and good solution for me to eliminate Canon from my life completely. Planning a trip to Africa and Antartica and will carry both the SL system and the 1D4+300+extenders.

 

Novoflex adapter for SL is ok for short focal length lenses only – anything like wide angle, or TS-E, manual focus really only. Forget using this as a solution for tracking BIF, useless. I've tried the Novoflex with my EF 300 2.8 – waste of time.

 

I have two batteries for SL. I find it adequate for my needs for a day of shooting, with the GPS operational all the time / I never turn it off.

 

M-mount lenses are not weather sealed. I'm sure they will take some moisture as there is no electronics in them, but I would not expose them to a lot of it. Of course the SL + one of the 24-90 or 90-280 zooms are fully weather sealed.

 

There is no extenders planned by Leica for the 90-280 zoom on their roadmap. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to push on with this idea anyway. For this zoom to help in serious wildlife shooting, you'd need to use it with the 2x extender. If so, then the lens becomes f/8 at 560mm. This is too slow, and still too short !! Leica had good R mount telephoto lenses, the Telyt series (the most recent ones were of modular design) but they were, and still are, extremely expensive, manual focus only, and no IS. Although they can be used on the SL with the adapter, their practical use for wildlife is only for static subjects and at a very high cost if you want to shoot with 500-1000mm or more range.

Edited by meerec
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

After using the SL for 1+ year - I realise that another system is needed for bird photography. Sure, SL can be used with manual lenses (and some of the Telyts are very, very fine (for instance Eurasian oystercatcherAtlantic puffin, and anther puffin with the Telyt APO-R 280mm f4) and the Canon FD 500 f4.5L works well on the SL), but without long, native AF lenses and state-of-the-art image stabilisation, SL is not your first pick for bird photography. And according to Leica's lens road map, long lenses are not around the corner - at least not for the first years (in plural). So I guess I will end up with a CanNik crop-body with 1-2 long, native lenses for birding, consistent with meerec's post above.

 

For a professional bird photographer's view about the SL and bird photography, don't miss Douglas Herr's summary and amazing work.

Edited by helged
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

But do note that Doug uses manual focusing. It tends to get better results. With the extremely narrow DOF of long lenses and the need to get the (small) eye in focus, manual focus is often  more effective than controlling the AF.

Link to post
Share on other sites

But do note that Doug uses manual focusing. It tends to get better results. With the extremely narrow DOF of long lenses and the need to get the (small) eye in focus, manual focus is often  more effective than controlling the AF.

True jaap but not for BIF.

If you have a stationary subject you can take all your time to fiddle with manual focus.

For rids sitting on a branch behind a few twigs and leaves, manual focus may be the only way to actually photograph it or you'd get that twig in focus instead with AF.

But without effective tracking, one can forget about BIF photography.

 

The other aspect is reach. Birds are small unless you talk about a pelican or a similar. So the real photography starts with 500mm or longer. 800mm and more is a norm. If you slap an extender on a short tele lens, you lose light a lot. You can't really shoot wildlife at f/8 sorry. So tou must have a long super telephoto and one that is fast. Canon commands humongous prices for those.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bohns ....... you state 'wildlife and landscape whilst hiking' ........

 

So you are going to have to make some compromises, because all the top end wildlife gear is huge and heavy and expensive ....... 

 

90% of the time you are going to be taking landscape shots ...... unless you live in some strange area overpopulated with creatures.... so consolidation to a single system like the SL would not be a problem..... but there are no long AF OIS lenses anywhere on the horizon. 

 

Wildlife photography is always going to be a problem .... and the only workable compromise I can think of ...... if you don't want to carry 20kg of gear about ..... is a second smaller format camera with a fixed long zoom specifically for wildlife ..... and accept the fact you are going to have to trade final image size and some quality for actually being able to leave the house carrying it all.....

 

Just changing the lot to SL....  as the system stands at the moment,  is not the answer. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Stef ... here is a bunch of my simple thoughts.

I can relate to your questions as there are similarities between us.

 

I've been a very long time Canon shooter.

My interests: BIF, birds in general, and wildlife, in addition to sport, street, portrait, landscape and documentary.

 

I stopped upgrading Canon gear with the 1D4 – as you'd know, it's a 1.3 crop sensor – gives me the extra reach for wildlife.

Sold all Canon lenses but the EF 300 2.8L II IS + 1.4x + 2x and have kept the 1D4 for wildlife only to afford to buy into the Leica world.

 

Bought SL a year ago.

 

Shoot with the SL day to day with a lot of M-mount primes: 10, 15, 24, 35, 50, 90, and the SL 90-280 zoom. Love this.

The 90-280 beats the Canon's 70-280 2.8L II IS in every respect. Fantastic lens. It's weather sealed on SL. Although the SL is CDAF not PDAF, this zoom is focusing very very fast. Tracking is not its forte though. Not in the sense it can with Canon. Other than this, it's one of my best lenses I ever owned.

 

I shoot anything requiring reach and fast AF with the 1D4 and the one Canon super tele with extenders. But 1D4 has been in storage most of the last year since I bought the SL. Haven't used it much, enjoy SL a lot more.

 

SL can be used for wildlife but no BIF or birds in general because this application requires reach, a lot of reach, typically 500mm+ as you would know. Although birds can be shot with manual focus, BIF require fast AF and tracking. It's not what SL is strong at.

 

There is no universal and good solution for me to eliminate Canon from my life completely. Planning a trip to Africa and Antartica and will carry both the SL system and the 1D4+300+extenders.

 

Novoflex adapter for SL is ok for short focal length lenses only – anything like wide angle, or TS-E, manual focus really only. Forget using this as a solution for tracking BIF, useless. I've tried the Novoflex with my EF 300 2.8 – waste of time.

 

I have two batteries for SL. I find it adequate for my needs for a day of shooting, with the GPS operational all the time / I never turn it off.

 

M-mount lenses are not weather sealed. I'm sure they will take some moisture as there is no electronics in them, but I would not expose them to a lot of it. Of course the SL + one of the 24-90 or 90-280 zooms are fully weather sealed.

 

There is no extenders planned by Leica for the 90-280 zoom on their roadmap. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to push on with this idea anyway. For this zoom to help in serious wildlife shooting, you'd need to use it with the 2x extender. If so, then the lens becomes f/8 at 560mm. This is too slow, and still too short !! Leica had good R mount telephoto lenses, the Telyt series (the most recent ones were of modular design) but they were, and still are, extremely expensive, manual focus only, and no IS. Although they can be used on the SL with the adapter, their practical use for wildlife is only for static subjects and at a very high cost if you want to shoot with 500-1000mm or more range.

 

 

Haven't tried the 90-280mm long enough to comment. but the 24-90mm is really a sharp lens and I suspect the 90-280mm is almost on par.

Sometimes I had the thought of getting one to shoot birds but whenever I thought of the short reach, My mind immediately gave up the decision. 

Iam not surprise that it can outperforms the 70-200II but not in all respect. I do hope it could be a constant F2.8 aperture :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everybody.

 

From what you will read after, ones may think I am turning crazy or just another GAS victim.

Anyway, here it is...

 

I am the owner of quite good gear which I use mainly for wildlife and landscape while hiking. It is made of a fairly new Canon 1DX mkII with a 100-400 mkII, a 16-35 f4 and a 24-105, plus my jewel of the crown 300 f2.8 with both extenders (1.4x and 2x).

 

14 months ago, I bought an M-P 240 and made a kit with a SEM 21, a CRON 35 ASPH, a LUX 50 ASPH, and a CRON 75 ASPH, all bought used but in a mint state.

 

While I am quite clear that although the M is almost perfect for travel and landscape, it is not well suited for my wildlife image hunting hobby, and I have to cope with 2 different systems. But my best photos since last year, wildlife put aside, clearly came from my rangefinder use. By far !

 

Since I admitted this fact, I am wondering whether selling all my Canon gear to buy a SL with both zooms and the M to SL adapter would not be relevant to rationalize in a single Leica system. But here are my concerns :

1) what about the SL AF for wildlife, and most specifically BIF ? There are no real review of the SL for such use. Are there some members of the forum which may deliver some feedback here ?

2) shall I bet that Leica will one day release some APO extenders, or consider that the max AF reach will remain 280 mm, which is quite limited with a 24x36 sensor for a wildlife use unless the sensor is very tolerant to cropping. Any experience from current SL users ?

3) what about the weatherproof claim when using M lenses on the SL ?

4) as soon as M lenses are coded, do we benefit from the DOF info on the top screen, or is it specific to SL lenses ?

5) what about the real (from field) battery life ?

 

Thank you for your insights,

Stef.

 

At this point of time, I think u should keep to what u have.

Leica SL hasn't anything ideal to shoot birds, not to say tracking a BIF, yet.

Unless u are shooting BIF on pre-focus mode but then again still makes no sense to sell of your Canon gears for Leica to shoot birds/wildlife.

Link to post
Share on other sites

True jaap but not for BIF.

If you have a stationary subject you can take all your time to fiddle with manual focus.

For rids sitting on a branch behind a few twigs and leaves, manual focus may be the only way to actually photograph it or you'd get that twig in focus instead with AF.

But without effective tracking, one can forget about BIF photography.

 

The other aspect is reach. Birds are small unless you talk about a pelican or a similar. So the real photography starts with 500mm or longer. 800mm and more is a norm. If you slap an extender on a short tele lens, you lose light a lot. You can't really shoot wildlife at f/8 sorry. So tou must have a long super telephoto and one that is fast. Canon commands humongous prices for those.

Really? :lol:

 

M8, 135 mm

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

R9/DMR Noflexar 400T wit 2x extender, handheld: (Note, f16...)

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't tried the 90-280mm long enough to comment. but the 24-90mm is really a sharp lens and I suspect the 90-280mm is almost on par.

Sometimes I had the thought of getting one to shoot birds but whenever I thought of the short reach, My mind immediately gave up the decision. 

Iam not surprise that it can outperforms the 70-200II but not in all respect. I do hope it could be a constant F2.8 aperture :)

 

Ha!! Yes ... constant 2.8 max aperture.

You know I've forgotten all about it because I don't notice the variable maximum aperture on the 90-280. I was very highly critical about it in the past not until I started seeing the results from the lens. I love them in any focal length. Maybe it's the fact it's an APO lens, IQ is superb. It does beat Canon's very good lens.

Link to post
Share on other sites

M8, TE 135

 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

 

Having said that I'll grant you that tracking focus makes life a lot easier, but to say nobody was able to photograph brds in flight before the advent of AF is incorrect. Nor do I think that really long fast lenses are very practical in this discipline, as they are difficult to manoeuvre to follow a flying bird, having a lighter thus slower lens and accepting the extra focus difficulties is preferable IMO

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

For sports photography, you'll need some heavier guns ;) I'm an old Safari hand - I never argue with Twitchers :lol: :lol:

 

Whatever else, the SL system does not appear to be designed for your intended use.

Link to post
Share on other sites

M8, TE 135

 

Having said that I'll grant you that tracking focus makes life a lot easier, but to say nobody was able to photograph brds in flight before the advent of AF is incorrect. Nor do I think that really long fast lenses are very practical in this discipline, as they are difficult to manoeuvre to follow a flying bird, having a lighter thus slower lens and accepting the extra focus difficulties is preferable IMO

Of course there are various schools to follow.

 

I've been brought up with the 800mm super teles + extenders + cropped 1-series bodies from Canon and the Wimberley gimbal on a super heavy tripod that make for a super fluid and lightweight operation, a true pleasure. There are still followers of this school at the fredmiranda forum and LuLa (RIP Michael,Reichmann).

 

I wanted to abandon that school by joining the Leica world. And I must admit, being a male, I don't multitask too well, which applies to handling two cameras in parallel, but have no choice. Have to keep my Canon gear forever.

Edited by meerec
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...