Are you totally new to Leica M / MM 246 whats the rational?

[M10Alpine]

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This is a general post with some reflections from me who is totally new to the magic world of the Leica M system. My reflections are personal and not in any way guidance or recommendations, simply reflections of my own experience.

 

Brief background of me: I travel about 200/250 days a year in hostile areas, war zones or politically volatile countries. I love alpinism, skiing and the outdoors as much as I love city strolling and art. 

 

Photography: ​As I travel to places very few people can vist and some times climb in places even fewer can reach I have always loved capturing the moments using a high end point and shoot and later with the Sony RX1 full frame. I picked the Sony RX1 as its a small and discreet full frame camera with a nice 35mm lens. 

 

The Q: Kind of by misstake I happened to end up in a camera store having a look at the Q. I immediately fell in love with the lens and its low light performance and fast AF. Not to mention the picture quality. So I got one. I loved the RX1 and I some what regret selling it as its so small, yet a little to big to carry when climbing. 

 

MM 246: After about 6 moths of shooting with the Q, I felt that some thing was missin. From a Leica AG perspective the Q is a little bitt of the corporate "heroine trick", you get to taste the magic but you are not really part of the family. Its a great/smart entry point type of camera to the Leica world even if its very expensive. 

I was simply very intrigued by the rangefinder concept and the simplicity of the MM 246. I went through plenty of reviews and decided that a MM 246 would be the ultimate tool for me. Why? Well since the Q has such an amazing lens, performance and versatility. I thought I would enter the M concept from the opposite direction so I got a MM 246. 

 

 

What I have learned: Once you have a M or MM 246 make sure you have some surplus funds to get the lens you REALY want. I went for a secondhand Elmarit 28mm f2.8 lens simply because they had one in the Leica store and the "package" was an affordable starting point.

 

If I was to be back at square one today, I would have bought a 50mm Summicron f2 or possibly the Summilux 35mm f1.4. Why? I value low light performance as a flash is a no go in most if not all situations I can use a camera in. Second why? At the end of the day, the M body is going to get dated, even if it will last a generation. The lens will never get dated. 

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is on a budget but still interested in using the M system. Today I have a 28mm f2.8 Elmarit and its totally fine but not exactly what I want so its not going to get used that much I suspect and its likely that I will sell it at a loss. I also have 50mm f2 Summicron. This lens is a perfect entry lens in my opinion for any one coming from the likes of RX1 type of camera, who is interested in understanding the possibilities of the M system. 

 

What do I really want? I want a 35mm f1.4 (some one else might want a 50mm APO etc) simply because I think I love the format and the versatility the sense is offering. Keeping in mind that I rarely can travel with more than one lens at the time. "Buy quality cry once" is a famous oneliner and not applicable in this context but translated I'd say, get what you really want from day one and save yourself som trading trouble. I think its key for the motivation one will need to fully understand and embrace the style of the M system to have the perfect lens for the style of shooting one is interested in.  

 

MM 246 or M 240 M-P? The appeal with Leica is the amazing results you get when or if you get it right when taking photo. Unless you have no budget issues I think other will end up in my situation. Regretting not getting the M 240 or some camera in that family with color. Why? Simply because then you start out missing the color is kind of like having the greatest collectable car with out a engin. I know hard core MM 246 fans will think its a huge difference between converting the raw file top B&W in light-room, but I have learned that I would survive with that and I do miss color and versatility. 

 

 

I like to thank Thorsten Overgaard for his amazing website that is packed with invaluable tips, tricks, data and opinions.  

 

 

 

Thoughts from others? 

 

PS

Sorry for my english, I'm dyslectic and english is not my first language. 

 

[Jager]

Welcome to the world of Leica.

 

Depending upon how much you paid for your 28 Elmarit, you shouldn't lose much, if anything, when you sell it.  Treated with kindness, Leica glass holds its value very, very well.

 

I very much agree with the notion of buying the lens and the focal length you want, not something else just because it seems, in the moment, more "affordable" (affordability in the Leica world being a bit of an oxymoron).  In any case, you'll almost certainly be buying more lenses anyway.   

 

And, indeed, the Monochrom is a unique, niche camera.  Choosing it simply because one already has a nice color camera seems a curious choice.  As you've discovered, alas, it really is meant for those who of us who really love black & white above all else.  The typical photographer who shoots mostly color, with the periodic conversion to black and white, is unlikely to be happy with it.  Your best bet is to go ahead and sell the Monochrom sooner than later and go ahead and get the M240.  Unlike nice glass, digital bodies don't hold their value well.

 

Welcome to the forum!

Edited December 15, 2016 by Jager

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[M10Alpine]

Welcome to the world of Leica.

 

Depending upon how much you paid for your 28 Elmarit, you shouldn't lose much, if anything, when you sell it.  Treated with kindness, Leica glass holds its value very, very well.

 

I very much agree with the notion of buying the lens and the focal length you want, not something else just because it seems, in the moment, more "affordable" (affordability in the Leica world being a bit of an oxymoron).  In any case, you'll almost certainly be buying more lenses anyway.   

 

And, indeed, the Monochrom is a unique, niche camera.  Choosing it simply because one already has a nice color camera seems a curious choice.  As you've discovered, alas, it really is meant for those who of us who really love black & white above all else.  The typical photographer who shoots mostly color, with the periodic conversion to black and white, is unlikely to be happy with it.  Your best bet is to go ahead and sell the Monochrom sooner than later and go ahead and get the M240.  Unlike nice glass, digital bodies don't hold their value well.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

I'm not unhappy, I just think I don't have the passion for B&W in that sense. What I fell in love with was the unique character of the camera. I might keep it and buy a second hand 240 or trade it for a MP typ 240. 

 

I guess this happens when you are new to a hobby.

 

Thanks for the feed back!  

[EoinC]

It is the nature of the human beast whereby impulse purchasing does not provide bandwidth for what do we actually want / 'need'. Heading for a M246 without having a passion for B&W was likely to leave you somewhat unsatisfied.

 

I have a M246 (and several other digital cameras), but mainly shoot film, with probably >95% of that being B&W, so it is something i do have a passion for / connection with.

 

Although I don't climb, I have spent much of my life in places of harsh conditions and conflict. Like you, I want a camera to be a tool, and generally only travel with 1 camera / 1 lens. What I think may help you is to figure out what vision you want to connect with. To me, the priorities run in descending order something like: (1) Medium; (2) Focal Length; (3) Aperture; (4) Camera. There are other parameters that may override this (eg size / weight for climbing), but it make be a good approach for you to think about. (1) is already answered, in that you appear satisfied with digital, and want to be able to shoot colour, so the next piece to look at is what focal length suits the shots you want to get?

 

It is preferable to run through this thought process before entering a camera shop, as magic can severely distort the want / need boundary.

[Belle123]

It is the nature of the human beast whereby impulse purchasing does not provide bandwidth for what do we actually want / 'need'. Heading for a M246 without having a passion for B&W was likely to leave you somewhat unsatisfied.

 

I have a M246 (and several other digital cameras), but mainly shoot film, with probably >95% of that being B&W, so it is something i do have a passion for / connection with.

Ditto. I mostly did B/w in film days, and it is what I enjoy seeing most in other people's work. Digital, always doing conversion, left something to be desired. I knew instantly the monochrome was for me! Also enjoying converting a digital camera to shoot only infrared. Similar experience I highly recommend.

[Mr Fjeld]

Ditto. I mostly did B/w in film days, and it is what I enjoy seeing most in other people's work. Digital, always doing conversion, left something to be desired. I knew instantly the monochrome was for me! Also enjoying converting a digital camera to shoot only infrared. Similar experience I highly recommend.

 

Exactly! Same here; started with photography in the mid eighties and mainly black and white. I was somewhat underwhelmed with my first digital camera (Nikon D70s) and became ecstatic when Leica launched the first monochrom and finally got my own 246 last summer. I never missed colours so it's not much of a dilemma for me whether to go for an ordinary 240 or the absolutely fantastic 246, but if I was the least in doubt I'd say the 240 (P) is the safest choice as one can convert to black and white while editing. It's not the same though and I think one approaches a photo in a different way with a black and white-only opportunity. 

 

My advice is that if you are in the least doubt whether to go for an ordinary camera or the 246, then go for the ordinary one! 

[John Black]

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Before you part with your M-246, slap on an orange or red filter on the 28mm and shoot on a sunny day with some blue sky (and hopefully some clouds mixed in).  Take the same picture with and without the filters.  With filter, you'll need to adjust the EC (nature of the beast). Also, the orange / red filters will shift focus, so use an EVF or LV to make sure focus is where you want it.  Take the same pictures with the Q as well.  This way you will have a complete data set:  unfiltered Mono, filtered Mono and Color (for B&W conversion).

 

Compare the images at home, play around in LR or C1, and see what you think of the results with the color filters.  The color image might do something amusing, but if truly try to match the result of the Monochrom, it is not easy.  When all is said and done, if you get stuff form the Monochrom you really like, then take a moment before selling it because the Monochrom is doing something that cannot be replicated with a color camera.

 

Or, if the results do nothing and I made you waste money on a filter (apologies), you can curse me and sell you M-246  And don't bother with Leica color filters; a B+W MRC #25 Red will do nicely.  ~$40.

[pico]

Funny, but for small format work I've given up film for digital, however there is no substitute for larger format film and not just for the size issue: there are very many larger format lenses designed for the format that have qualities that 35mm have been trying to defeat. So let the 35mm format designers pursue their ideal. It leaves the rest of us to use the traditionals for the better.

 

In the early days of lens design the designers made different rendition more important than resolution.

Look it up or ask here.

Edited December 25, 2016 by pico

[lencap]

Reading your posts I think I hear you say that you have concluded that the 35mm f/1.4 lens is what you want. So start there. Buy it and try again with the 246. That camera is technically exceptional at resolving detail in extreme low light situations; better than any other M camera. John Black's suggestion to use filters may also enhance the camera's flexibility and performance for your needs, especially in ultra bright high contrast areas like snow.

 

If the Monochrome/35mm f/1.4 combo doesn't do it for you, you'll still have the lens you want and can try a mint used M240 to see if having color matters as much as you think it may. With the expectation of a new M coming soon finding a good deal on a used M240 is very possible. If the M240 does it for you, problem solved. If not, problem also solved - maybe another approach/camera/format is better for your needs.

 

My personal experience has also been that Leica gear holds value very well, especially if you are patient when reselling. After all, there's no rush; it's all a learning experience and the cost of experience is money well spent if you've learned something useful.

[M10Alpine]

Before you part with your M-246, slap on an orange or red filter on the 28mm and shoot on a sunny day with some blue sky (and hopefully some clouds mixed in).  Take the same picture with and without the filters.  With filter, you'll need to adjust the EC (nature of the beast). Also, the orange / red filters will shift focus, so use an EVF or LV to make sure focus is where you want it.  Take the same pictures with the Q as well.  This way you will have a complete data set:  unfiltered Mono, filtered Mono and Color (for B&W conversion).

 

Compare the images at home, play around in LR or C1, and see what you think of the results with the color filters.  The color image might do something amusing, but if truly try to match the result of the Monochrom, it is not easy.  When all is said and done, if you get stuff form the Monochrom you really like, then take a moment before selling it because the Monochrom is doing something that cannot be replicated with a color camera.

 

Or, if the results do nothing and I made you waste money on a filter (apologies), you can curse me and sell you M-246  And don't bother with Leica color filters; a B+W MRC #25 Red will do nicely.  ~$40.

 

 

Hi - I'm actually doing exactly this, I have started experimenting with an orange filter, and its very cool!. 

[M10Alpine]

Reading your posts I think I hear you say that you have concluded that the 35mm f/1.4 lens is what you want. So start there. Buy it and try again with the 246. That camera is technically exceptional at resolving detail in extreme low light situations; better than any other M camera. John Black's suggestion to use filters may also enhance the camera's flexibility and performance for your needs, especially in ultra bright high contrast areas like snow.

 

If the Monochrome/35mm f/1.4 combo doesn't do it for you, you'll still have the lens you want and can try a mint used M240 to see if having color matters as much as you think it may. With the expectation of a new M coming soon finding a good deal on a used M240 is very possible. If the M240 does it for you, problem solved. If not, problem also solved - maybe another approach/camera/format is better for your needs.

 

My personal experience has also been that Leica gear holds value very well, especially if you are patient when reselling. After all, there's no rush; it's all a learning experience and the cost of experience is money well spent if you've learned something useful.

 

Thanks for this advice and I have to say I totally agree, its a learning experience and I enjoy it! No harm in trying and failing and then tweak and try again! I'm super happy to be involved with the  M-System, I will never give that up.