blueskyoveraquatic Posted June 25, 2017 Share #61 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Fully agreed with this. If the camera I own at the certain point in time is an M, it will be an M at an event or wedding. The senses of pre-empting and anticipating will be turned on full blast because as a photographer, you are well aware of the fantastic IQ but yet the technical limitations of the tool and yet you felt good using that equipment hence you bought it. +1 northernlights's comments First, I would like to say that I am not a paid wedding photographer. However, I had shot three weddings. Here are my 2cents on this topic: A wedding still-photography package in my neck of the woods usually consists of: a. on-location pre-wedding photoshoot b. 'Bride/groom getting ready' on the wedding day photoshoot c. Wedding ceremony at church/temple in the morning photoshoot d. Wedding reception/party at a venue such as hotel's ballroom or restaurant photoshoot All of the above events require more than one photographer plus multiple camera bodies and lenses plus lighting setups. For each of the above four photoshoots, camera bodies, lenses, and lighting equipment are carefully selected. If a Leica T plus a fast prime such as CV 35mm f/1.2 are selected during planning knowing its capabilities by the lead photographer, then Leica T it is :-)! Hehe! By this time, paid photographers would have already scratched their heads by reading this nonsensical statement. Edited June 25, 2017 by blueskyoveraquatic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 25, 2017 Posted June 25, 2017 Hi blueskyoveraquatic, Take a look here Leica T Wedding/Event Photography. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
northernlights Posted June 25, 2017 Share #62 Posted June 25, 2017 +1 northernlights's comments First, I would like to say that I am not a paid wedding photographer. However, I had shot three weddings. Here are my 2cents on this topic: A wedding still-photography package in my neck of the woods usually consists of: a. on-location pre-wedding photoshoot b. 'Bride/groom getting ready' on the wedding day photoshoot c. Wedding ceremony at church/temple in the morning photoshoot d. Wedding reception/party at a venue such as hotel's ballroom or restaurant photoshoot All of the above events require more than one photographer plus multiple camera bodies and lenses plus lighting setups. For each of the above four photoshoots, camera bodies, lenses, and lighting equipment are carefully selected. If a Leica T plus a fast prime such as CV 35mm f/1.2 are selected during planning knowing its capabilities by the lead photographer, then Leica T it is :-)! Hehe! By this time, paid photographers would have already scratched their heads by reading this nonsensical statement. I am not professional too but have done some paid weddings and corporate events. I must admit actual day weddings were easier on Canon DSLR's I had then. I was one man and the fee was nothing to shout about obviously. I did a recent pre-wedding shoot outdoors done on my Sony A7ii with all manual glass. During Easter, I also did a hotel marketing event involving the spread, decors and an actual event involving kids scrambling for hidden Easter eggs, story telling etc without explicitly showing faces ( obviously Personal Data Protection Act). I did that assignment on an M240 and a few M lenses. Now I have sold all of that at a gain and downsized to a brand new T (at an Aussie shop at AUD999 and got it shipped to Singapore) with a 1.5x crop sensor and not owning a single T lens as yet until I am pretty clear. I bought the Visoflex and the Leica M-L adaptor though. But a tool is a tool. I was apprehensive on the Easter egg chase segment but I got some shots by knowing where the eggs were and cheated but getting some kids to pose looking under cushions and delivered the assignment to the hotel and got paid. Yeah..but a DSLR would have done the job much easier. But I wouldn't enjoy the experience so much and for the large part of hobbyist street shooting most of the time, I did not need a DSLR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkulin Posted June 25, 2017 Share #63 Posted June 25, 2017 You know what Gents, any camera can be put to good use at any event, however these are my views: - I have probably done 20 or 30 weddings and all were done using medium format because it slowed you down to think about composition, and exposure, when we shot 120 roll and with only 10 images to a roll, you had to think about every shot. I recently went to a wedding and was gobsmacked to see 2 photographers with hipster style belts with 3 cameras on each and when I asked them how many images they took, I was advised that each of them would shoot 1000-2000 images each! Indeed a thinking photographer could use a T and get fantastic results, whereas a poor photographer using a high end medium format would get terrible results. In my opinion I would always opt to use the largest sized CCD that I could effectively use, something like Blad X1D/Leica SL or Phase One, because I genuinely feel that medium format whether film or digital gives better skin tones and depth of contrast. When I was taught photographer 35+ years ago, I was taught to take your time, use your feet and use your feet! That still holds true today. My son is getting married next year and I have suggested to them that when they select their photographer to make sure they identify what format the photographer will be shooting on and then look at their portfolio. Just my thoughts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted June 25, 2017 Share #64 Posted June 25, 2017 Do you quiz your dentist on what drill he will use? Do you cross examine your surgeon on the size of his scalpel? Or do you determine the quality of their work and ask for a track record of success and failure? Why care what camera your wedding photographer will use, other than out of curiosity? Examine his/her past work, seek old clients for feedback and know the consistent standard he/she produces. How it is achieved is immaterial. It is only the result that you are buying, not the gear! I speak as one who has shot thousands of weddings on medium format and later switched to 35mm (Leica). Fashions change, tastes change, styles change. Photographers must keep abreast of those changes and adapt their techniques accordingly. The reason I downsized (format) from MF to 35mm (for weddings) was because expectations of shooting style were changing. Shooting MF is quite different from shooting 35mm and the results mirror the difference. Direct the photographer as to the style you want, but let him/her decide how to achieve it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted June 26, 2017 Share #65 Posted June 26, 2017 Some further thoughts on my comments in the post above. Always have backup/spares of all gear you intend to use. Breakdowns do happen, the only question is when. Never convenient. Probably the most important factor in shooting weddings is crowd control/people management. Your gear and it's use should be second nature to you, allowing you to 'focus' on the people involved, and the crowd of guests. How you conduct yourself in this situation is paramount. I suggest going to watch the work of your selected photographer in and outside the church if possible. See how he/she conducts their work. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfashn Posted June 26, 2017 Share #66 Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) I really don't know exactly how other people are doing with wedding photography and the T, but it's going along with me and my Fuji X cameras to any weddings I have this year. You don't have to have just one tool... I specifically got the T with 11-23 because I wanted a wide-angle lens, and I wanted something with a different "look" from my X cameras. It'll be fun! - Dana http://www.percolatingpixelphotos.com Edited June 26, 2017 by fastfashn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkulin Posted June 26, 2017 Share #67 Posted June 26, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Erl, If I was qualified as a dentist/Surgeon then I would ask certain questions about their procedures and equipment. It comes without question that I would seek out proof of their abilities and track record. With photography it is too late after the image has been taken and were they to advise me that they were shooting on an instamatic camera they they would not get the job, similarly with some cameras I just don't like the images produced, I generally can distinguish between medium format and cropped format, and therefore what camera they use does determine my choice of photographer. I do however agree that for candids and difficult shots in close proximities to the subjects that a wide angled light weight camera can produce the goods. We all have different standards and different ideas, that's what makes the world go round, what might be right for me might not be right for you and vica versa. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted June 26, 2017 Share #68 Posted June 26, 2017 jkulin, with respect, I think you missed the point of my comments. Summarized, I was saying don't tell the professional (any professional) how to do their job. Question as much as you like the result they are able to produce, but let them decide how best to achieve it. That is their job. If it takes an instamatic, what the hell, if, yes if, that gets the picture, that is all you are buying. If you are hung up on what gear was used, maybe you are missing how good the picture really is. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkulin Posted June 26, 2017 Share #69 Posted June 26, 2017 Erl, No I didn't miss your point, I fully understand it, as I said I would always check what gear was used and evaluate that against their proven results, but in deciding who to go to in the first instance I would decide against what equipment they used and yes if they used an instamatic I wouldn't use that photographer. And no with regards to photographer or indeed any other hobby that I am well versed it, then I would want to see the tools of their trade in my initial decision. Look, we are probably never going to agree, neither is right or wrong, we both have a different opinion, so why don't we let the matter drop and agree to disagree? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfashn Posted June 26, 2017 Share #70 Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Erl, "No I didn't miss your point, I fully understand it, as I said I would always check what gear was used and evaluate that against their proven results, but in deciding who to go to in the first instance I would decide against what equipment they used and yes if they used an instamatic I wouldn't use that photographer. And no with regards to photographer or indeed any other hobby that I am well versed it, then I would want to see the tools of their trade in my initial decision. Look, we are probably never going to agree, neither is right or wrong, we both have a different opinion, so why don't we let the matter drop and agree to disagree?" Sigh... Clients don't ask you what gear you use, unless they are tech nerds. I have NEVER had a client ask me if I used Canon L lenses, or Sony full frame (etc). Never. Frankly, also, it's none of their business anymore than it would have been The Pope's business asking Michelangelo what kind of brushes or chisels he used. The end result is all that matters. Truthfully, I think if a client asked me what gear I was using I'd ask their preference and then charge them extra for whatever the cost to rent that particular gear from Lens Rental. If a Kodak Instamatic is what is required for a particular shoot, then that's my call. Edited June 26, 2017 by fastfashn 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkulin Posted June 26, 2017 Share #71 Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Erl, "No I didn't miss your point, I fully understand it, as I said I would always check what gear was used and evaluate that against their proven results, but in deciding who to go to in the first instance I would decide against what equipment they used and yes if they used an instamatic I wouldn't use that photographer. And no with regards to photographer or indeed any other hobby that I am well versed it, then I would want to see the tools of their trade in my initial decision. Look, we are probably never going to agree, neither is right or wrong, we both have a different opinion, so why don't we let the matter drop and agree to disagree?" Sigh... Clients don't ask you what gear you use, unless they are tech nerds. I have NEVER had a client ask me if I used Canon L lenses, or Sony full frame (etc). Never. Frankly, also, it's none of their business anymore than it would have been The Pope's business asking Michelangelo what kind of brushes or chisels he used. The end result is all that matters. Truthfully, I think if a client asked me what gear I was using I'd ask their preference and then charge them extra for whatever the cost to rent that particular gear from Lens Rental. If a Kodak Instamatic is what is required for a particular shoot, then that's my call. As I said: - "Look, we are probably never going to agree, neither is right or wrong, we both have a different opinion, so why don't we let the matter drop and agree to disagree?" Just to add I had a good number of commercial client insist on what format I shot with and even down to whether I shot on a Blad or RB, so yes clients do ask what equipment you use. Edited June 26, 2017 by Jkulin Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfashn Posted June 26, 2017 Share #72 Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) "Just to add I had a good number of commercial client insist on what format I shot with and even down to whether I shot on a Blad or RB, so yes clients do ask what equipment you use." I kind of thought this thread was about weddings, and if commercial clients "" are asking you about the brand of camera you are you using, they have a stick up their ass. Like I said though, I'd be happy to use whatever the client wanted, as long as the client pays for the rental. "Why yes, dear Cosmo, I DO use full-frame still cameras. I am quite happy with my Contax N1." Edited June 26, 2017 by fastfashn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfashn Posted June 28, 2017 Share #73 Posted June 28, 2017 ... I'd wager that most brides and their families do not know one end of a camera from another - and even less about using them. If they're happy with sample albums and the price is right they'll likely hire most experienced photographers regardless of camera used. dunk - Hear hear! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 28, 2017 Share #74 Posted June 28, 2017 As a working wedding photographer this thread is both ludicrous and hilarious at the same time. Given the title I though more than a couple of contributors here might actually be talking about wedding photography..... Keep going. I have popcorn...... Great fun. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfashn Posted June 29, 2017 Share #75 Posted June 29, 2017 As a working wedding photographer this thread is both ludicrous and hilarious at the same time. Given the title I though more than a couple of contributors here might actually be talking about wedding photography..... Keep going. I have popcorn...... Great fun. Well, I wish your post had been helpful instead of ridiculously sarcastic. Did YOU want to talk about actual "" wedding photography? Please do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 29, 2017 Share #76 Posted June 29, 2017 Well, I wish your post had been helpful instead of ridiculously sarcastic. Did YOU want to talk about actual "" wedding photography? Please do. You guys seem to have taken your sides. I don't think I'd sway any opinions so I'm just enjoying the show. But feel free to ask if you have any questions. Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfashn Posted June 30, 2017 Share #77 Posted June 30, 2017 You guys seem to have taken your sides. I don't think I'd sway any opinions so I'm just enjoying the show. But feel free to ask if you have any questions. Gordon Nope. I'm doing fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted July 12, 2017 Share #78 Posted July 12, 2017 The short answer is probably, "you can, but would you want to?" Given that the OP shoots professionally with the 5D Mark III and Leica Q, he's used to a certain level of performance. For any paid assignment where split second decisions and one-shot opportunities are the norm, you would want rock-solid and fast focus, reliable gear that will perform steadily in the face of disaster, and flexibility. As much as the TL has improved after firmware updates, I don't see it performing at the same level as a 5D Mark III. I don't shoot weddings. But a few years ago, I went to a family friend's wedding and took a swag of cameras for the hell of it. My primary cameras were the M9 and Ricoh GXR with M-mount module, but I also had the Fuji X100, Canon 5D Mark II, Ricoh GRD III and Leica M7 in a bag at the hotel. As far as current expectations of wedding coverage went, I didn't hit all the points, and there were a few occasions where I missed a shot I wanted because the camera didn't recover fast enough. But I did make a reasonable coverage in an artistic documentary style, and the couple and family liked my images more than the hired pros. I felt like I was channeling Riccis Valladares, hahaha. Could I have made life a lot easier for myself with just the 5D Mark II and a couple of zooms? Of course. And were I to shoot weddings professionally, that's the kind of camera I'd use. Not a consumer camera intended for hobbyists. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 12, 2017 Share #79 Posted July 12, 2017 The short answer is probably, "you can, but would you want to?" Given that the OP shoots professionally with the 5D Mark III and Leica Q, he's used to a certain level of performance. For any paid assignment where split second decisions and one-shot opportunities are the norm, you would want rock-solid and fast focus, reliable gear that will perform steadily in the face of disaster, and flexibility. As much as the TL has improved after firmware updates, I don't see it performing at the same level as a 5D Mark III. I don't shoot weddings. But a few years ago, I went to a family friend's wedding and took a swag of cameras for the hell of it. My primary cameras were the M9 and Ricoh GXR with M-mount module, but I also had the Fuji X100, Canon 5D Mark II, Ricoh GRD III and Leica M7 in a bag at the hotel. As far as current expectations of wedding coverage went, I didn't hit all the points, and there were a few occasions where I missed a shot I wanted because the camera didn't recover fast enough. But I did make a reasonable coverage in an artistic documentary style, and the couple and family liked my images more than the hired pros. I felt like I was channeling Riccis Valladares, hahaha. Could I have made life a lot easier for myself with just the 5D Mark II and a couple of zooms? Of course. And were I to shoot weddings professionally, that's the kind of camera I'd use. Not a consumer camera intended for hobbyists. Please bear with me while I comment, politely with no intent to offend. IMO, it was a mistake to take a 'swag' of cameras. You were immediately weighed down and unnecessarily handicapped. I know you were not the paid Pro, who should have started with a fairly tight brief and based on that, made a judicious choice of gear, which he/she probably did. Many times I have heard that 'the amateur' got better pics than the Pro. There are usually a number of reasons for that. 1. The Pro is paid to deliver and so must rely, to some extent, on 'set' shots that can be guaranteed to deliver. Then he/she is free to ad lib a bit, same as everyone else at the wedding. 2. Some of those 'best' shots (groups etc) by amateurs are set up by the Pro and then everyone else shoots it from an apparently candid angle. I know, I started that way, way back in time. The gear anyone uses is very personal and cannot/should not be dictated by someone else. In the past, I have shot many thousands of weddings and moved through differing fashions and gear choices. Nothing is static. Returning to the OP re using a Leica T. I have never seen one, much less used one, but I venture the opinion that any camera that is functional could be used, in the hands of a competent photographer, but that does not make it automatically the camera of choice. At this point I think we agree. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted July 12, 2017 Share #80 Posted July 12, 2017 Please bear with me while I comment, politely with no intent to offend. IMO, it was a mistake to take a 'swag' of cameras. You were immediately weighed down and unnecessarily handicapped. I know you were not the paid Pro, who should have started with a fairly tight brief and based on that, made a judicious choice of gear, which he/she probably did. Many times I have heard that 'the amateur' got better pics than the Pro. There are usually a number of reasons for that. 1. The Pro is paid to deliver and so must rely, to some extent, on 'set' shots that can be guaranteed to deliver. Then he/she is free to ad lib a bit, same as everyone else at the wedding. 2. Some of those 'best' shots (groups etc) by amateurs are set up by the Pro and then everyone else shoots it from an apparently candid angle. I know, I started that way, way back in time. The gear anyone uses is very personal and cannot/should not be dictated by someone else. In the past, I have shot many thousands of weddings and moved through differing fashions and gear choices. Nothing is static. Returning to the OP re using a Leica T. I have never seen one, much less used one, but I venture the opinion that any camera that is functional could be used, in the hands of a competent photographer, but that does not make it automatically the camera of choice. At this point I think we agree. erl, no offence taken at all. The swag of cameras was just... because I could? It seemed like a fun idea at the time, although it was interesting to discover which cameras I leaned on the most. Most of the time I only had the M9 and GXR with me, and that was all I wanted. The majority of images were shot at 50mm and 75mm, with the occasional 21mm image for environmental context. Were I to do it again, I'd use the M9 for 50mm and 75mm and get hold of a Q to handle wide angle duties. The paid pros were using 5D Mark III's with the usual 24-70, 70-200 and 50/1.2L lenses. Were I shooting that as a job, I would have used the same gear, for the reasons you outlined. Like you, I believe that the choice of gear is personal, but ought to fit both the assignment and skill level/experience of the photographer. I'm impressed that you shot many weddings with Hasselblads, that would take serious skill. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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