Leica M 10

[otto.f]

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We are no longer discussing the M10... the subject has moved on. And the only reason some of us are repeating ourselves is to correct the incorrect or inaccurate assumptions that people are making who have clearly not been following the conversation particularly closely and are only now joining in.

Those of us who are clear in what we have been discussing as a potential future option are not, and never have, seen an EVF M option as a replacement for the current OVF M... but as an additional option to the M range of camera bodies... If people 'got' that point alone, there would be close to 90% less repetition

If this is it, it would be clearer for our history and archives if a new thread with that topic would have been started.

[colonel]

The advantage of the M is the OVF and the best manual focus system in the world, the RF

The fact thats it's all mechanical is just a beautiful thing, another draw to the camera

 

If you want an EVF there are many choices within and without Leica

 

The M system is a manual focus system. Have a fully electronic camera without AF is ridiculous

 

Why muck up a lovely camera

The M is what it is

 

Whilst people buy it Leica will make it. Which I predict will outlive us all ...

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[Paul J]

Well this is going to come across as a rant to some so if you don't want to read a rant, stop reading now. I think the main thing this new M10 has done for me is make me realise how much I have come to really dislike digital.

 

As a working photographer, tethering is a fundamental part of my job and it is what clients just come to expect and now need - that is a whole other story but it's changed the industry for the sake of convenience and it's made it worse in so many ways. It's changed the process and made it something else.

 

The M10 no longer has this ability to tether and it looks like that is the future of the M, like it or leave it. Too bad for the fact I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on the system that now looks at a dead end. And here I find myself wanting to spend more than five and a half thousand pound to see if I can make it work on a camera that while better, is really not giving much more than my M9's can within a certain envelope and within my uses. The M9 has some limits but they are not limiting my picture taking at all except for resolution for output - something that is totally different shooting film. Stepping away from it, it does give some benefits but realistically they are not benefits that I need to make pictures - you know, what photography is all about.

 

I have really come to dislike digital It's totally changed photography at the core and I want to reclaim our medium for that art it once was. Not only that, I just prefer the way film looks. Digital is so false and jarring next to film. It's colour and contrast is ugly and I spend too much time trying to get it how I want, never matching the straight up beauty of film.

 

In a time where many of my colleagues and peers are going back to film, I wonder if this is now time for me too. Get off this delirious tail chasing madness that digital has become, this marketing dream for camera companies, and just get back to photography. Screw it - throw it up in the air and see how it lands.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Paul J

[jaapv]

It is not really a rant. I'm just an amateur, but I happened to pick up my M6 yesterday (actually to change straps around to get a better one on my newly arrived GX8) and, finding there was still a film in it, found myself thinking that this was far more attractive than any M10, and just lying in my safe...

Guess what will be in my bag this weekend 

And most likely during my skiing holiday too

[colonel]

Well this is going to come across as a rant so if you don't want to read a rant, stop reading now. I think the main thing this new M10 has done for me is make me realise how much I have come to really dislike digital.

 

As a working photographer, tethering is a fundamental part of my job and it is what clients just come to expect and now need - that is a whole other story but it's changed the industry for the sake of convenience and it's made it worse in so many ways. It's changed the process and made it something else.

 

The M10 no longer has this ability to tether and it looks like that is the future of the M, like it or leave it. Too bad for the fact I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on the system that now looks at a dead end. And here I find myself wanting to spend more than five and a half thousand pound to see if I can make it work on a camera that while better, is really not giving much more than my M9's can within a certain envelope and within my uses. The M9 has some limits but they are not limiting my picture taking at all except for resolution for output - something that is totally different shooting film. Stepping away from it, it does give some benefits but realistically they are not benefits that I need to make pictures - you know, what photography is all about.

 

I have really come to dislike digital It's totally changed photography at the core and I want to reclaim our medium for that art it once was. Not only that, I just prefer the way film looks. Digital is so false and jarring next to film. It's colour and contrast is ugly and I spend too much time trying to get it how I want, never matching the straight up beauty of film.

 

In a time where many of my colleagues and peers are going back to film, I wonder if this is now time for me too. Get off this delirious tail chasing madness that digital has become, this marketing dream for camera companies, and just get back to photography. Screw it - throw it up in the air and see how it lands.

 

I think with respect you are overreacting to a single product release

 

Leica say the M240 will continue and there is no indication it wont have a successor

 

There are two minimalist streams (probably more) in Leica buyers. Both want a cut down camera that ensures they can concentrate on the fundamentals. One wants something with very limited mod-cons (M-D, M10, etc.) and others, like me, want a very simple M camera with hidden functionality to assist the user. For example I would prefer one with video, tethering, etc.

 

I can tell you, from using the Q, that Leica get "it" completely, i.e. what a modern camera should be capable of.

So when they build something like the M10 its very deliberate for a specific market which they believe exists (I believe it too).

 

Lets wait and see

[jaapv]

We might consider that the M cameras have not been intended as studio cameras from the beginnig. It is not really surprising that Leica has introduced the SL as their professional platform, carefully preserving compatability with their M lenses, before moving the M more firmly into the journalistic (in the widest sense) and advanced amateur realm.

[Peter H]

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I think with respect you are overreacting to a single product release

 

Leica say the M240 will continue and there is no indication it wont have a successor

 

There are two minimalist streams (probably more) in Leica buyers. Both want a cut down camera that ensures they can concentrate on the fundamentals. One wants something with very limited mod-cons (M-D, M10, etc.) and others, like me, want a very simple M camera with hidden functionality to assist the user. For example I would prefer one with video, tethering, etc.

 

I can tell you, from using the Q, that Leica get "it" completely, i.e. what a modern camera should be capable of.

So when they build something like the M10 its very deliberate for a specific market which they believe exists (I believe it too).

 

Lets wait and see

You might be right.

 

The specs of the M10 strengthen my conviction that there will before long be two parallel digital M lines along with their satellites.

 

This is the traditionalist one, which I expect to be very popular, and will enable Leica to release a far more modern version without upsetting the more nostalgic people who simply wanted a digital M6. Many people may like both.

 

So I'm not assuming this is the end of the line for the M.

[wattsy]

The M10 no longer has this ability to tether and it looks like that is the future of the M, like it or leave it. 

 

In a time where many of my colleagues and peers are going back to film, I wonder if this is now time for me too.

 

 

As much as I like them, I'm not sure the film M bodies are so good for tethering.

[wattsy]

will enable Leica to release a far more modern version without upsetting the more nostalgic people who simply wanted a digital M6.

 

I think you do a bit of a disservice to those who simply prefer the optical rangefinder (and a camera built around that key differentiator) by regularly dismissing them as being motivated by nostalgia.

[Paul J]

I don't feel it's an over reaction. This has been coming a long time and its just the catalyst.

 

While I'm open to what you are suggesting, firstly, I'm not convinced this to be the case at all. The signals are that the Digital M is out to pasture. Secondly, looking at film, everything I like is just there except for convenience - But it's just an illusion. The countless hours and extra days of computer time is far worse. Thirdly, it's not just the medium, but the photography an its process.

[jaapv]

I don't think it is out to pasture. I think that Leica is defining its target customer group more precisely which does make sense if they want to make the camera viable in the future.

That has the unpleasant side-effect that some present users will fall beside the roadside. Leica is trying to keep them with the brand by offering the SL (and, in a way, the Q)

Whether that is sufficient is another matter. Maybe they will see the need for a more professionally featured M as a 240 successor, who knows?

[Peter H]

I think you do a bit of a disservice to those who simply prefer the optical rangefinder (and a camera built around that key differentiator) by regularly dismissing them as being motivated by nostalgia.

I didn't say that Ian. I said the release of the M10 would mean that Leica can now release a different version that won't risk upsetting those M users who do like the more traditional qualities of the M, including those who have openly expressed their nostalgic desires for a digital M6. That is not saying that everyone who admires the M10 is nostalgic. You've introduced that reading I believe.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Peter H

[Paul J]

As much as I like them, I'm not sure the film M bodies are so good for tethering.

You think so?

 

There's more in there than your skim reading has picked up.

[jaapv]

As much as I like them, I'm not sure the film M bodies are so good for tethering.

No, but it will be acceptable to customers that value the photographer using film, I suppose.

[wattsy]

There's more in there than your skim reading has picked up.

 

 

More what?

[wattsy]

No, but it will be acceptable to customers that value the photographer using film, I suppose.

 

It was just a small joke. I obviously forgot this is the Leica forum.

[Paul J]

Jaap has said he is just an amateur but to be frank - being a professional used to be like being an amateur in the sense there was a freedom to create and make your art and that is long gone. The only real difference was the pressure to make it work and get your skill tied down to the point where it is repeatable. I want to burn the house down and get back to what photography is suppose to be and not the rat race it became with digital. When clients start overly dictating, it's time to change. When the camera manufacturers start to dictate - it's time to change. Art should come from the artist and everything else is a distraction and a muddling of the process and path.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Paul J

[Peter H]

I don't think it is out to pasture. I think that Leica is defining its target customer group more precisely which does make sense if they want to make the camera viable in the future.

That has the unpleasant side-effect that some present users will fall beside the roadside. Leica is trying to keep them with the brand by offering the SL (and, in a way, the Q)

Whether that is sufficient is another matter. Maybe they will see the need for a more professionally featured M as a 240 successor, who knows?

And that is the point: the release of the M10 in the form it has taken could liberate Leica to release a version with more of the features that for some would have spoiled the M10.

 

I think that way they could satisfy most of their current customers and win more new ones.

[jaapv]

I think it was  Ansel Adams who said: You want to be a photographer? - get a job at a shoe store... I think it sums it up - if an artist wants to be free he should cut loose from the commercial aspect. Either by being an amateur who gains his income elsewhere, or by living in Paris on cheap wine and bread.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wattsy]

And that is the point: the release of the M10 in the form it has taken could liberate Leica to release a version with more of the features that for some would have spoiled the M10.

 

I think that way they could satisfy most of their current customers and win more new ones.

 

 

That is of course possible – Leica doesn't seem shy in trying new things and introducing new camera products – but I get the impression that the dropping of the whole M "typ" designation thing and the attention paid to the optical viewfinder indicates that Leica are drawing a line under their recent attempts to give the M system a wider appeal and that the M10 is how the company wants to position the system digitally.