FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 27, 2016 Share #1 Posted October 27, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Recently I picked up one of these second hand. My copy is absolutely fabulous in the centre 85% of the frame. But the very corners show some very obvious smearing. I'm reading reports this is normal. And then others that say it's like a set of primes and the corners are brilliant. Not sure what to believe so I'm looking for others who have used this optic to chime in. Now, for my uses, I don't need the corners to be perfect. However I'd hesitate to use it for landscapes and take my 645Z instead. Frankly the 25 year old FA45-85 doesn't quite reach what the Leica does in the centre but it's much much better in the corners at f8-11. My copy doesn't show any de-centering. It's pretty consistent. Here's a sample of a fence. And you can download the DNG file here if you want to have a look at what I'm getting. https://www.dropbox.com/s/9plwt99g54vcv7n/L1007449.DNG?dl=0 Gordon Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/265885-opinions-on-the-vario-elmar-s-30-90-asph/?do=findComment&comment=3136307'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Hi FlashGordonPhotography, Take a look here Opinions on the Vario-Elmar S 30-90 ASPH?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Vieri Posted October 27, 2016 Share #2 Posted October 27, 2016 Hello Gordon, thank you for the DNG, indeed the corners look a bit smeared and you are right in thinking that the lens isn't decentred. Have you tried it at other focal lengths, and if so how does it behave? I have a 30-90mm for testing with me now, and I'll post my findings as soon as I have the time to put it through its paces. Best, Vieri 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erlingmm Posted October 27, 2016 Share #3 Posted October 27, 2016 It has its limitations, especially for landscape/merging to panoramas, but it greatly expands the usage envelope of the camera, makes it a (albeit a little heavy) walkaround, I spent a week in Havana with it on the S006, loved it in daylight. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 27, 2016 Share #4 Posted October 27, 2016 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250720-30-90-zoom-first-impressions/ As discussed, even though perhaps not as stellar as equivalent primes, some samples (see Manolo posts at end) may be out of spec. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephan_w Posted October 27, 2016 Share #5 Posted October 27, 2016 well, I can't complain about the quality of the pictures, I just find the ergonomics not so nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted October 28, 2016 Share #6 Posted October 28, 2016 I concur with your finding. Versatility has it trade off I think. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share #7 Posted October 28, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250720-30-90-zoom-first-impressions/ As discussed, even though perhaps not as stellar as equivalent primes, some samples (see Manolo posts at end) may be out of spec. Jeff Thanks Jeff. I hadn't seen that thread. My copy isn't as bad as that lens. However I may send the DNG to Leica Australia to see what they think. Honestly it's not the end of the world but it's a shame that a 20 year old Pentax lens easily does better at f11 and 85mm. It does improve at wider focal lengths but the corners always look just a bit off compared to the centre. Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share #8 Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Hello Gordon, thank you for the DNG, indeed the corners look a bit smeared and you are right in thinking that the lens isn't decentred. Have you tried it at other focal lengths, and if so how does it behave? I have a 30-90mm for testing with me now, and I'll post my findings as soon as I have the time to put it through its paces. Best, Vieri it's better at the wider end but the corners never get as good as the Pentax FA 45-85, which is 1/5th the price new and 1/20th for a used copy. I have tested at most focal lengths at close mid and infinity. AF and MF using live view and the optical finder. If it were good as the Pentax to the corners it would be an ideal landscape lens. I can keep my Pentax for landscapes. It'd just be nice to only have one complete MF system. And the S is, for me, better for everything else. I'll be very interested in your findings. Very interested indeed. Gordon Edited October 28, 2016 by FlashGordonPhotography Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBabyEarl Posted October 28, 2016 Share #9 Posted October 28, 2016 I don't know if you read the other thread, but the guy sent it to Leica and got a new one that was better. At the end of the day- its a zoom and I don't care how many zooms you can call up- they're still zooms that cannot complete with primes in any way other than convenience. Never quality. If it's good from 30-60 than that's great. Serious, real deal landscape photography at the highest order? Use a prime. I like the idea of this zoom as a tool of convenance and I would pester Leica to give me the best example if I had one worse than others. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share #10 Posted October 28, 2016 I did. But since I bought mine used I don't expect Leica to replace it. I'm trying to get enough information to see if I should send it in, which will take months. You'll also note I'm not comparing to primes. I'm comparing to another medium format zoom that's an older design and a lot cheaper and a lot better. There are plenty of zooms that are superb a stop or two down. Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted October 28, 2016 Share #11 Posted October 28, 2016 One option is to simply crop out the offending areas. Given the large files, this should be both practical and pose no problems... I think that there is a variation between lenses as mine is near perfect at the periphery. Certainly not as bad as the posted shot.. Albert Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 28, 2016 Share #12 Posted October 28, 2016 I think that there is a variation between lenses as mine is near perfect at the periphery. Not quite what you posted there, Albert.... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/250720-30-90-zoom-first-impressions/?p=2937189 Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share #13 Posted October 28, 2016 One option is to simply crop out the offending areas. Given the large files, this should be both practical and pose no problems... I think that there is a variation between lenses as mine is near perfect at the periphery. Certainly not as bad as the posted shot.. Albert Not for me. I bought those pixels to use them. I'm far more likely to stitch than crop. I print large..... If I wanted to crop the image I'd bring my SL instead. The SL zoom is much much better in the corners. I'll send Leica Australia a polite email with a sample and see if they're happy with it. As I said before 90% of the time it's not going to be an issue and for my intended use it'll not be noticed. It would just allow me to get rid of some other gear if the corners were good and expand the S's usefulness to me. Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss leica fan Posted October 28, 2016 Share #14 Posted October 28, 2016 Not for me. I bought those pixels to use them. I'm far more likely to stitch than crop. I print large..... If I wanted to crop the image I'd bring my SL instead. The SL zoom is much much better in the corners. I'll send Leica Australia a polite email with a sample and see if they're happy with it. As I said before 90% of the time it's not going to be an issue and for my intended use it'll not be noticed. It would just allow me to get rid of some other gear if the corners were good and expand the S's usefulness to me. Gordon When I look at the DNG at 100% it appears that the right side is worse than the left side. The section around the rusty nail on the far right appears to be sharper than that on the far left. Principilly, this would suggest the lens is decentered. However, this unsharpness may also be due to differences in distance between sensor and object. I assume you did not perfectly align your camera with the fence. Any deviation of the sensor plane from being perfectly parallel with the object will result in unsharpness and these deviations will have more unsharpness effect the more far from the center. When makes me wonder, however, is that it changes from sharp to smeary quite rapidly. Looking at the MTFs that are provided on the Leica webside the Vario should be more consistent at 90mm than at 30mm where contrast drops quite rapidly. This fact may also be evidence that the unsharpness of the corners is at least partly explained by the sensor not being perfectly aligned with the fence resulting in one corner the fence being too close while in the other corner being too far from the sensor. However, the MTFs provided bei Leica are likely to be measured for longer distances. Unlike with the prime lenses for the S Vario Leica does not deliver MTFs for close distances. I assume that the wooden fence was quite close, was it? Maybe 6 feet or so? Did you also do test shots at infinity? Kind regards Swiss Leica Fan 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share #15 Posted October 29, 2016 When I look at the DNG at 100% it appears that the right side is worse than the left side. The section around the rusty nail on the far right appears to be sharper than that on the far left. Principilly, this would suggest the lens is decentered. However, this unsharpness may also be due to differences in distance between sensor and object. I assume you did not perfectly align your camera with the fence. Any deviation of the sensor plane from being perfectly parallel with the object will result in unsharpness and these deviations will have more unsharpness effect the more far from the center. When makes me wonder, however, is that it changes from sharp to smeary quite rapidly. Looking at the MTFs that are provided on the Leica webside the Vario should be more consistent at 90mm than at 30mm where contrast drops quite rapidly. This fact may also be evidence that the unsharpness of the corners is at least partly explained by the sensor not being perfectly aligned with the fence resulting in one corner the fence being too close while in the other corner being too far from the sensor. However, the MTFs provided bei Leica are likely to be measured for longer distances. Unlike with the prime lenses for the S Vario Leica does not deliver MTFs for close distances. I assume that the wooden fence was quite close, was it? Maybe 6 feet or so? Did you also do test shots at infinity? Kind regards Swiss Leica Fan I don't think it's decentered. I've had decentered lenses and I'm confident this one isn't. I also did some tests for field curvature as well and eliminated that as a possibility. There's no point having a hundred sample put up but I have shots where the right looks a bit better and others where the left looks a bit better. And I didn't measure this to ensure accuracy of alignment. It was just an example of what I'm seeing in day to day shooting and picked as a single example. I've got to agree on the rapid change. That's what's got me thinking. I've only seen this once before, in a new CV 15mm lens that I immediately returned. It was a lot worse than this though. More and more I'm considering sending the lens to Leica. Thanks for your comments Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicapages Posted October 29, 2016 Share #16 Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) Gordon, I understand your frustration. I would send the lens to Leica for inspection just to be sure and for your own peace of mind. That said, I am using the Vario 30-90 and, while it is an excellent lens overall, it is true that its performance in the outer zones of the image is less consistent than with comparable focal length fixed lenses (I have used the 30 and 70mm). It is also true that the Vario is at its best on the lower end of the focal lengths (30 to 60). For me, under most circumstances, the sheer convenience of not having to change lenses on the go, and the flexibility in shooting different situations, outweigh these quality related issues. It is also true, however, that I mostly use the lens at the 30 to 50mm setting as I prefer wide views. If you were to use the lens mostly around the 70 to 90mm setting things would probably look differently. Not sure this helps you, but it is something I wanted to share, and which seems to be in line with most others' experiences. Take care, Pascal Edited October 29, 2016 by leicapages 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manolo Laguillo Posted November 1, 2016 Share #17 Posted November 1, 2016 Gordon, ... It is also true that the Vario is at its best on the lower end of the focal lengths (30 to 60). For me, under most circumstances, the sheer convenience of not having to change lenses on the go, and the flexibility in shooting different situations, outweigh these quality related issues. It is also true, however, that I mostly use the lens at the 30 to 50mm setting as I prefer wide views.... Pascal I agree with you, Pascal. Between 30 and 60 mm this zoom behaves well on the corners. The center is always, from 30 to 90, excellent. I do use it most on the wide side as well, therefore it is an excellent standard lens for me. And I don't need more than f. 4 - 5.6. Yes, my experience with Leica was very nice. I can imagine they will treat you equally well, Gordon. Just ask them. It's a nearly 10.000 euros lens... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted November 2, 2016 Share #18 Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Jeff- My original zoom was sub-optimal and was returned to Germany and a replacement sent. The corners are near perfect but not perfect.... Still a MARKED improvement and fine for my purposes... After all can always crop! Albert Edited November 2, 2016 by albertknappmd Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dritz Posted November 2, 2016 Share #19 Posted November 2, 2016 Jeff- My original zoom was sub-optimal and was returned to Germany and a replacement sent. The corners are near perfect but not perfect.... Still a MARKED improvement and fine for my purposes... After all can always crop! Albert Is it just me or is the "cropping" solution suboptimal given the cost of the lens? For me, the problem is IR contamination at the 30 to 35mm focal lengths. Dean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted November 2, 2016 Share #20 Posted November 2, 2016 cropping is a reasonable alternative in the sense that your trade off is one zoom versus three or more primes. Personally, the differential between the center of the picture and the border is minimal at say 80mm and this is fine for me. If it were particularly egregious or vexing then I crop. Beats carrying three primes all the time. This is obviously my opinion and reasonable people can be quite content carrying three primes and never having to crop.... Albert Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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