Leica M-P 240 Exposure Compensation Question

[cnick6]

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Sorry if this has been hammered before but why is EC only supported when using Aperture Priority?  Seems kind of odd.  

 

If that's the case, then why can I even go into the menu and fiddle with it?  This should be disabled in the menu if it's not supported -- if the camera is not in Aperture mode.

[Exodies]

So you want, for example, to set the speed dial to 1/60 second and the shot to be taken at 1/30?

I trust you can see that in automatic speed selection there is an advantage in being able to tell the camera to measure the normal speed and then to add or subtract some.

There is no advantage in you estimating the normal speed and telling the camera to add or subtract some when you have to turn the speed dial to your estimate anyway.

 

ETA: as for the menu not being disabled when speed is set to other than "A" - it would be annoying if you had selected a speed and wanted to change the compensation for the next time you were in A. There is no annoyance in letting EC be set whatever the speed dial is set to.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Exodies

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[jaapv]

And you can fiddle with it in anticipation of returning to automatic.

[FeralCoton]

Doesn't exposure compensation in manual mode after the suggested metering in the viewfinder? It didn't change shutter speed of course, but would suggest target exposure in line with compensation?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[lct]

Wrong post sorry folks.

Edited October 20, 2016 by lct

[pop]

Sorry if this has been hammered before but why is EC only supported when using Aperture Priority?  Seems kind of odd.  

 

If that's the case, then why can I even go into the menu and fiddle with it?  This should be disabled in the menu if it's not supported -- if the camera is not in Aperture mode.

My Leica M (Typ 240) does not do that. It applies the EC both in manual and aperture priority modes. Also, I do not enter any menues to change the EC; merely turning the thumb wheel does the trick.

[willeica]

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The physical design of the exposure compensation system on the Leica M240 is truly bad and clunky. The systems on the LX 100 (and indeed Leica's copy of the camera , the D-Lux) and the Fujifilm X series are far superior. I hope that Leica do something about this with the next iteration of the M but I am not too hopeful. Style over function appears to be the current mantra at Leica HQ.

 

William

[lct]

My Leica M (Typ 240) does not do that. It applies the EC both in manual and aperture priority modes. Also, I do not enter any menues to change the EC; merely turning the thumb wheel does the trick.

 

The SET menu must be used at least once for that. For those interested: SET / Exposure compensation / Direct adjustment / On. Not a big deal to be honest but EC dials are easier to use on my other cameras. 

[pop]

The physical design of the exposure compensation system on the Leica M240 is truly bad and clunky. The systems on the LX 100 (and indeed Leica's copy of the camera , the D-Lux) and the Fujifilm X series are far superior. I hope that Leica do something about this with the next iteration of the M but I am not too hopeful. Style over function appears to be the current mantra at Leica HQ.

 

William

I don't think so. Having set up my M to my tastes, I merely turn the thumbweel which is exactly where I have my thumb. One click to the right makes the image brighter, one click to the left makes it darker. I can do that while looking into the VF.

 

All other cameras require me to first find another control to press, then to turn a fiddly wheel somewhere on the back of the camera. I think this is clunky while the single control operation on the M is simple and quite foolproof.

 

I don't know what this has to do with style over function. Well, it appears to be stylish to bemoan functions of a Leica camera.

[jmahto]

I don't think so. Having set up my M to my tastes, I merely turn the thumbweel which is exactly where I have my thumb. One click to the right makes the image brighter, one click to the left makes it darker. I can do that while looking into the VF.

 

All other cameras require me to first find another control to press, then to turn a fiddly wheel somewhere on the back of the camera. I think this is clunky while the single control operation on the M is simple and quite foolproof.

 

I don't know what this has to do with style over function. Well, it appears to be stylish to bemoan functions of a Leica camera.

In M240 there is a menu item (need to look up) to configure the behavior of thumb wheel for EC. You can either do EC by simply turning the wheel (as you mentioned above) or press the front button and then simultaneously turn the wheel. I prefer the later because it eliminates accidental EC change, which is sticky. I hardly use EC therefore it works for me. It is simply a personal preference.

 

EC actually changes light meter calibration. In A mode the shutter speed selection gets affected if EC is set. In manual exposure mode the "correct exposure" indicator is shifted according to compensation. For example if (f/4,1/125,ISO200) shows correct exposure (by absence of L R arrows in the view finder) and you make EC of -1 then you need to set (f/4, 1/250,ISO200) to make L and R arrows vanish in the VF. Essentially you are exposing one stop less. If you use external meter (or your own reading of light) for your exposure then EC has no meaning in manual mode.

 

(Note: I am writing this from my memory, I don't have the camera in front of me to verify.)

[jmahto]

Sorry if this has been hammered before but why is EC only supported when using Aperture Priority?  Seems kind of odd.  

 

If that's the case, then why can I even go into the menu and fiddle with it?  This should be disabled in the menu if it's not supported -- if the camera is not in Aperture mode.

See my comment on manual mode in response #10 (one above).

[lct]

[...] All other cameras require me to first find another control to press, then to turn a fiddly wheel somewhere on the back of the camera [...]

 

My Fuji, Panasonic and Sony cameras do not need any control to press and their EC dial is duly placed under the right thumb. Great to have a dedicated dial for that. It allows to check the amount of exposure compensation w/o having to chimp or to use the viewfinder. 

[cnick6]

And you can fiddle with it in anticipation of returning to automatic.

 

I understand your point -- and I can get over EC only working in Aperture mode -- but I completely disagree about the setting being active.  If the setting has no effect on the current shot, then the EC LED (in VF) should not be displayed.  In fact, after I tested this in manual mode, the LCD display info showed EC+1 (or something like that) to a picture I had taken -- even though it had obviously not applied any EC.

 

This is misleading the user, IMHO. 

[pop]

I understand your point -- and I can get over EC only working in Aperture mode -- but I completely disagree about the setting being active.  If the setting has no effect on the current shot, then the EC LED (in VF) should not be displayed.  In fact, after I tested this in manual mode, the LCD display info showed EC+1 (or something like that) to a picture I had taken -- even though it had obviously not applied any EC.

 

This is misleading the user, IMHO. 

In manual exposure mode, the EC applies to the exposure metering only. I would find it misleading and extremely annoying if the camera failed to apply the ASA and speed settings exactly as set by myself. 

 

As soon as you use the internal light meter, it becomes immediately obvious that it applies the EC. It's not inactive. It applies to the metering only.

[pop]

...

(Note: I am writing this from my memory, I don't have the camera in front of me to verify.)

It's exactly as you say.

[Tailwagger]

EC/EV simply effects the notion of what the exposure values should be and then, when possible, compensates by altering shutter speed or aperture depending on the shooting mode. It has nothing to do with sensor sensitivity, it simply changes the calculated shutter or aperture number coming out of the meter.   With the M, unlike the Fujis, CaNikons, Sonys of the world,  the camera has 0 control over the aperture and so EV/EC changes can only alter shutter speed.  Unless there is something tricky going on and I tested this, there doesn't seem to be, if the shutter speed dial is not on A, dialing up or down compensation has no effect on the exposure. ie. the indicated shutter speed stays exactly the same regardless of what you have dialed up or down.  You can easily test this for yourself.  This is exactly why EV on the Fuji, and presumably others, does no EV comp if the camera is in manual.  You've told the camera that you control the shutter and aperture and therefore it has no way to alter the exposure, thus spinning the EV dial makes no difference.  

[kenf]

In M240 there is a menu item (need to look up) to configure the behavior of thumb wheel for EC. You can either do EC by simply turning the wheel (as you mentioned above) or press the front button and then simultaneously turn the wheel. I prefer the later because it eliminates accidental EC change, which is sticky. I hardly use EC therefore it works for me. It is simply a personal preference... (snip)

Thanks to you and the others that reminded me that this was a setting - I just changed my M-P exposure compensation to require the front button. *Much* better!

 

My Fuji, Panasonic and Sony cameras do not need any control to press and their EC dial is duly placed under the right thumb. Great to have a dedicated dial for that. It allows to check the amount of exposure compensation w/o having to chimp or to use the viewfinder.

Horses for courses. I find the EC dials on my Sony and Fujis to be much too easy to bump off zero, I'd prefer a locking dial. Leica's implementation works well for me.

[SonomaBear]

My Q is set to have EC on the thumb wheel.  When shooting M, the EC affects the ISO selection.  Best of all worlds: manual aperture, manual shutter, auto exposure via floating ISO.

To be fair, the viewfinder shows it all to you -- if the ISO exceeds my preference, there is nothing that I could have done (save ND filters or flash) to get proper exposure at my settings.

My camera is in the other building, I'll double check this.  I know the EC works beautifully in M, don't think that anything except ISO, is changed by EC.

[jmahto]

EC/EV simply effects the notion of what the exposure values should be and then, when possible, compensates by altering shutter speed or aperture depending on the shooting mode. It has nothing to do with sensor sensitivity, it simply changes the calculated shutter or aperture number coming out of the meter.   With the M, unlike the Fujis, CaNikons, Sonys of the world,  the camera has 0 control over the aperture and so EV/EC changes can only alter shutter speed.  Unless there is something tricky going on and I tested this, there doesn't seem to be, if the shutter speed dial is not on A, dialing up or down compensation has no effect on the exposure. ie. the indicated shutter speed stays exactly the same regardless of what you have dialed up or down.  You can easily test this for yourself.  This is exactly why EV on the Fuji, and presumably others, does no EV comp if the camera is in manual.  You've told the camera that you control the shutter and aperture and therefore it has no way to alter the exposure, thus spinning the EV dial makes no difference.  

Highlight mine...

Yes and No. You are right that in full manual mode you control the exposure fully. But if you rely on in-camera light meter to determine correct exposure then you should note that  EC comp shifts lightmeter's reading. See my post #10 (second para).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Exodies]

If you are relying on in camera light meter to determine correct exposure then why in sodomy are you using manual speed selection? It beggars belief.