A miller Posted October 20, 2016 Share #21 Posted October 20, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you know you will use it regularly, I would go for a used MP. If you want to try it out and may not use it regularly, I would go for a good condition M4 I would also recommend to force yourself to use it w/o a meter 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 20, 2016 Posted October 20, 2016 Hi A miller, Take a look here First film M; which one?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
qixianggoh Posted October 20, 2016 Share #22 Posted October 20, 2016 How about consider getting an M5? It's the right price for a metered M. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indio Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share #23 Posted October 20, 2016 If you know you will use it regularly, I would go for a used MP. If you want to try it out and may not use it regularly, I would go for a good condition M4 I would also recommend to force yourself to use it w/o a meter I just don't know if I want to use one without a meter as I don't want to carry a light meter. Could rely on sunny 16 rule but not sure if I want to deal with one more variable while getting used to shooting film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 20, 2016 Share #24 Posted October 20, 2016 I just don't know if I want to use one without a meter as I don't want to carry a light meter. Could rely on sunny 16 rule but not sure if I want to deal with one more variable while getting used to shooting film.I personally dont think that you are giving yourself enough credit, but it is your choice!Even with an in camera spot meter, you have to think and make adjustments... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indio Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share #25 Posted October 20, 2016 I personally dont think that you are giving yourself enough credit, but it is your choice! Even with an in camera spot meter, you have to think and make adjustments... Thank you for encouraging words. I did look at M4 as well. I could snag a M4-P for <800 and it is in good condition. A local seller here has M6-TTL .072 (it seems a special edition or something it has buffalo leather instead of usual black on the body) for $2100. That one is really like new not even a single scratch. Almost pulled the trigger on that one. Frankly with so many choices starting from M3 to MP, I am totally lost. Didn't take me this long to pull trigger on an M240, but I guess that is how it is with film cameras Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemgb Posted October 20, 2016 Share #26 Posted October 20, 2016 I just don't know if I want to use one without a meter as I don't want to carry a light meter. Could rely on sunny 16 rule but not sure if I want to deal with one more variable while getting used to shooting film. Do you carry a smartphone? There are several light meter apps available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 20, 2016 Share #27 Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you for encouraging words. I did look at M4 as well. I could snag a M4-P for <800 and it is in good condition. A local seller here has M6-TTL .072 (it seems a special edition or something it has buffalo leather instead of usual black on the body) for $2100. That one is really like new not even a single scratch. Almost pulled the trigger on that one. Frankly with so many choices starting from M3 to MP, I am totally lost. Didn't take me this long to pull trigger on an M240, but I guess that is how it is with film cameras I can just tell you from my similar experience that i started with am M6 and barely got it out of the box and decided it wasnt going keep me hard and then i got an M3 and thought i was in Leica heaven and then just branched out and have since acquired an IIIg which is a novelty but also climactic to use and then an M-A which i will get buried with but it aint cheap and you need to be committed. Along the way i picked up an M7 bc they are so cheap now and use it regularly but dont have any use for the meter so that is the one that i have been planning to sell save for my laziness. The M4 is so revered primarily bc it incorporates the engineering and build prowress of Leica and well as the enhanced practical functionality over the M3 with the VF and loading mechanism over the M3. I just wasnt smart enough in that stage of my teeth cutting to be able to hone in on this. I have forced myself to go manual and meterless save for a small hand held incident meter and am so glad that i got over the hump as it means so mich to the creative side od the end product. Edited October 20, 2016 by A miller 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelwj Posted October 20, 2016 Share #28 Posted October 20, 2016 There are so many choices as you have found. But really they are all so similar, and the differences are tiny. If I was coming from a digital M, I'd get an M6TTL to keep the same shutter dial size and direction. I would find it to hard to swap between them. All the other differences are just minuscule when compared to the similarities. Comparing an M2 to an M4 to an M4-P to an M6 to an MP is like comparing an M9 to an ME, so similar in everyday use. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 21, 2016 Share #29 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Hello Indio, Welcome to the Forum. When trying to decide which Film "M" to choose please keep in mint that there are probably less differences between all of the film "M's" together, including the M5, than there are between all of the digital "M's" together. Basically, they all work pretty much the same. Some are a little smoother working for various reasons. Some have small differences which may be advantageous under certain conditions. But, net, they are all pertty similar. The major differences are:Some have range/viewfinders that cover different focal lengths than others. Which means range/viewfinder magnifications may be different. Some have built in behind the lens light meters. Others don't. Some have advantageous aspects, like the overhanging shutter speed dial on an M5 which makes it the easiest shutter speed dial to use. Whoops. I have to pause here. I will be back. Best Regards, Michael Edited October 21, 2016 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 21, 2016 Share #30 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Hello Indio, I am back. Some range/viewfinders "flare" more than others. Some camera models have behind the lens flash meters. Some camera models have "Aperture Preferred" electronic shutters in addition to the manual shutters that they all have. All of the "M" film cameras, no matter how old, can be pretty much be brought up to specifications with appropriate cleaning, etc which is widely available. Unlike some problems with some digital models. These are some of the basic characteristics to consider. 1 way to choose is to think of which lenses you would use most of the time & to choose from the models which are best suited to your needs. As you said above: This is a First World problem. Luckily, this is a First World with no bad choices because you are pretty much talking about small/fine differentiations here where 1 choice might make something somewhat more or less convenient but, generally, not impossible. As to whether or not a light meter should be built in? Supplementary light meters are easily available & they are as easy to learn to use as built in models are. For the most part this is not an issue with the majority of lenses used & situations encountered with most "M" camera lenses. Best Regards, Michael Edited October 21, 2016 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 21, 2016 Share #31 Posted October 21, 2016 [...] Supplementary light meters are easily available & they are as easy to learn to use as built in models are. For the most part this is not an issue with the majority of lenses used & situations encountered with most "M" camera lenses. True, and if one can trust my experience, the Leica M6 and later behind-the-lens light meters are very good. Sure, there are people who don't understand how the meters can be fooled, but it is a rare issue and very easily overcome when you know how they work. So, I recommend M6 or M7. M7, especially. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indio Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share #32 Posted October 21, 2016 Hello Indio, I am back. Some range/viewfinders "flare" more than others. Some camera models have behind the lens flash meters. Some camera models have "Aperture Preferred" electronic shutters in addition to the manual shutters that they all have. All of the "M" film cameras, no matter how old, can be pretty much be brought up to specifications with appropriate cleaning, etc which is widely available. Unlike some problems with some digital models. These are some of the basic characteristics to consider. 1 way to choose is to think of which lenses you would use most of the time & to choose from the models which are best suited to your needs. As you said above: This is a First World problem. Luckily, this is a First World with no bad choices because you are pretty much talking about small/fine differentiations here where 1 choice might make something somewhat more or less convenient but, generally, not impossible. As to whether or not a light meter should be built in? Supplementary light meters are easily available & they are as easy to learn to use as built in models are. For the most part this is not an issue with the majority of lenses used & situations encountered with most "M" camera lenses. Best Regards, Michael Thank you Michael for your detailed response. I paid seller for a M6. Should be in my hands mid next week. Also thanks to rest of the folks that responded to this post & helped me make a decision. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mute-on Posted October 21, 2016 Share #33 Posted October 21, 2016 Good choice! Now grab a fistful of Ektar, Portra and XP2 and shoot the advance lever off it! Enjoy J Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indio Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share #34 Posted October 21, 2016 Now, what film to buy ? I reckon will be shooting both indoors and outdoors (surprise!) . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted October 21, 2016 Share #35 Posted October 21, 2016 I have been shooting the same M6 since the 80's, bought new at the time and an M4-2 bought used, many moons ago. Though answered the Sirens' call with an early M8 ( still love and use it almost daily ) - and a smattering of the D3s / D500 for the ""must have SLR days - nothing gives me the satisfaction and visceral pleasure of artistic expression or journalistic "nailed it" sensation, as my trusty film M's. I did have Sherry exchange the finder to an MP with a CLA long ago. Great choice. Suggest you now just use it often, trust it and I might equally suggest sticking with one lens / one film for a while until you tame it a bit. Great tools...even now. Maybe, especially now. Enjoy. Best. Coos 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indio Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share #36 Posted October 21, 2016 What is box speed of film? I have so many questions about shooting film (never done before). What online resources could I refer to for reading up on basics? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2016 Share #37 Posted October 21, 2016 HI Indio, You had/have an M(240), which gives you color digital with a built in meter. So, what's a appeal of film? (that question is rhetorical). If you already have a good digital, I'm guessing (like many) it's the "analogue" (okay chemical) appeal of back to basics photography. What will film give you? That rather beautiful richness - deep blacks, smooth mid tones and great dynamic range. You can guess, I'm really only thinking black & white film, in which case my approach has been to stick with Kodak Tri-X 400. I do shoot colour, but that is only Velvia 50 transparencies on my SWC (and that hasn't had an outing recently). If you're going down this particular rabbit hole (and it can be very satisfying), I'd be clear about what you're doing and why, then make your decisions accordingly. For myself, I came to the conclusion that going to the effort of shooting film, and using a reflective light meter made no sense (unless I was using a spot meter and zone system) - taking incident readings has had far great appeal, as your blacks are black and your whites white, rather than the meter trying to level everything to average grey. So, I would also have recommended to you to get an M-A (okay, probably too expensive) or an M4-P and learn how to meter (it isn't hard). I can't be assed printing (actually I don't seem to be assed developing either, if the growing pile of film canisters is anything to go by). My preference is to scan, and then do post on my PC, then email the file to Whitewall or equivalent printers - they do a better job than I ever could. Anyway, have fun. Choose a film, take the battery out of the camera, and take lots of pictures. The great thing about film is that it encourages you to think more about the image than the technology - that has to be a good thing. Cheers John 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2016 Share #38 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) What is box speed of film? I have so many questions about shooting film (never done before). What online resources could I refer to for reading up on basics?Ah, okay - the box speed is the ISO at which the film maker estimates the film will give the best results. You'll read about pushing (i.e., exposing a film rated at 400 ISO at a slower speed like ISO 250, then processing at ISO 250), but I'd ignore that if I were you. The simple answer is that once you load a film, you stick with one ISO setting for the entire roll - your only adjustments are aperture and shutter speed. A good general film is ISO 400, though back in the day ISO 64 was pretty standard, and we had to use fast lenses (f/1.4) or a flash to useable exposures in low light, or use a tripod and accept motion blur. You're in California, which is pretty sunny - ISO 400 is pretty good. Tri-X for black & white, and Portra (apparently) for colour. I don't really do colour on film as I don't see the point. Cheers John Edited October 21, 2016 by IkarusJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 21, 2016 Share #39 Posted October 21, 2016 I often read similar comments to this online. Prior to digital cameras being more common you'd never have heard such a comment. I never speak for others, but for me b/w film wasn't satisfying without doing my own processing and printing....building 4 darkrooms over 35 years....and matting and framing. Color was a different story, outsourcing slides and negs, but without the same passion. Digital for me (last 9 years) is still about executing the entire process from camera to framed print, but now including color...only the tools have changed. Different strokes. As for the OP, just pick a camera that feels right and go for it.....you can't go wrong if you enjoy RF photography, especially if you're driven by the picture and not the gear. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soden Posted October 21, 2016 Share #40 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) I would go with a late model M7. Early models have the same viewfinder as the M6, which is prone to flare. Late models have the same viewfinder as the MP. Because it's battery dependent it's has a lower price. Just make sure you have extra batteries and you'll be ok. The advantage of the M7 over all other film M's is the shutter, it's electronic, thus more accurate. Of course there is aperture priority, which comes in useful if your used to using it on digital M. Edited October 21, 2016 by Soden Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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