Leica Summaron-28 -image thread

[Rick]

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Regarding vignetting:  When I shot my Summaron and Summicron last night I stated that I noticed a difference between the lenses.  

 

With the Summicron 28, both old and new version, I very often notice vignetting especially in landscapes, but I rarely lift the corners in LR.  The Summaron is a little bit more than half of a stop  more noticeable, but I rarely lift the corners in LR.

 

The reason I leave the vignetting in the photo is because, I kind of like the look most of the time.  I do not use the lens to produce landscape photos.  I'm usually horsing around trying to get an unique sort of photo with, for example,  a lot going on in the frame, maybe shot into the sun... trying to get something special.

 

The shots posted here seem to be fairly representative of the vignetting.  Sometimes very noticeable, sometimes you have to look for it.

 

The latest version of the Summicron 28 has 1.8 stops of vignetting and the old Summaron 28 has 2.5 stops.  Both lenses vignette and both can be corrected well, in most cases, with LR.

 

Again, I would suggest this lens because, it is just a cool little lens and it can be used to produce a unique look.  This is no optical grand master landscape lens.  Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[lct]

[...] the Summicron 28 has 1.8 stops of vignetting and the old Summaron 28 has 2.5 stops. [...]

 

Not at the same apertures i guess. I have no experience with the Summaron but at f/5.6, both my Summicron and Elmarit asph 28 have about 0.5 stop of vignetting. Not a problem though. I would buy the Summaron to get some glow at f/5.6 if i were interested, not to mimic f/2 or f/2.8 lenses.

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[pedaes]

Thanks Rick. I agree it can enhance some images, especially if in b&w. I often add a touch to 'hold in' the image. Be interesting to see how the new lens pans out - with the skills they have I can't believe Leica haven't fine tuned this to be 'right' and highly acceptable to todays users. I would also guess the Leica design team want to get this lens "right" to see what reception it gets to take a view if any follow ups are viable - which are likely to be much more expensive!.

[helged]

Not too much of a pain; a simple flat field correction will take care of such shifts.

Often yes, but not neccesarily for difficult/mixed light (based on experience with images with white snow).

[luigi bertolotti]

Just a curios...do someone know which is the 6 bit code for this lens ?

[Rick]

Not at the same apertures i guess. I have no experience with the Summaron but at f/5.6, both my Summicron and Elmarit asph 28 have about 0.5 stop of vignetting. Not a problem though. I would buy the Summaron to get some glow at f/5.6 if i were interested, not to mimic f/2 or f/2.8 lenses.

 

 

According to the Leica Pocket Book, 8th edition:

 

Summicron 28 has 2.1 stops of vignetting (I was wrong above stating it was 1.8)

 

Summaron 28 has 2.4 stops of vignetting.

 

Rick

Edited October 20, 2016 by Rick

[lct]

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At full aperture i guess i.e. at f/2 and f/5.6 respectively.

[microview]

Just a curios...do someone know which is the 6 bit code for this lens ?

 

Of course, it's not in the menus of recent M cameras (manual lens recognition) so would Leica bother to upgrade software for this?

[lct]

28/5.6 and 28/2 v2's vignetting according to Leica's technical data:

 

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[Rick]

Thanks Rick. This is a perfect verbal description of what can be seen in my article/photos linked earlier in this thread. There are some contributions here where people are justifying buying or not buying the lens. There is, of course, no obligation on any Leica user or collector to buy any particular lens, old or new. I bought this lens as a collector's piece, with the very expensive SOOBK hood with black crackle finish being added slightly later. My article shows the size of the lens on the M240 both with and without the hood and also by comparison with a 28mm Summicron shown on an M9 both with and without a hood.

 

There has been some discussion here about other possible candidates for a Leica lens re-issue program. A lot of older lenses are available quite cheaply eg the 50 Elmar and the 50 collapsible Summar. I have 7 different copies (all good) of the various variants of the latter lens. These provide wonderful 'character', quite different to that found in modern lenses. One issue with collapsible lenses is possible sensor damage, so I never collapse them on a digital camera. One wonderful little lens that does not collapse which might be a candidate for a 're-issue' program is the the A36 version of the 35mm f 3.5 Summaron lens. This is a very compact lens which also produces wonderful images, perhaps a little less good than those from the 2.8cm f5.6 Summaron. It is, however, much more common than the 2.8cm Summaron and, hence, it is a lot cheaper. I can post photos taken by this lens on a digital M , if anyone is interested. There is no reason why any Leica user should not buy one of these with an adaptor tomorrow for €200-€300 and start shooting the 'old look' today. I believe that the old 2.8cm f5.6 model will always be expensive because of scarcity. The price of the old version will probably rise because of the new version being so much more expensive. I have no intention of selling mine any time soon.

 

William

 

 

I have the 3.5/35mm LTM Summaron and it is almost a doppelgänger for the 2.8/5.6 Summaron we are discussing.  It is another really nice lens, both build and image quality-wise.  Interesting to me that you mention this lens.  I feel like we are on the same page.  

 

But, the 35mm/3.5 Summaron is not even close to being as optically advanced as the 2.8/5.6 Summaron.  The 3.5/3.5 Summaron is a moderate contrast lens that is only sharp on axis and drops off precipitously by 6mm.  Even stopping it down to 5.6 only improve softness a little bit across the frame.  

 

I also own the 3.5/35mm Summaron LTM and really like the way it renders regardless of its optical limitations.  But, it can not compare to modern lens designs the way the 2.8/5.6 Summaron can.  I believe this is why Leica chose the 3.5/5.6 Summaron.  The 3.5/5.6 Summaron is still optically relevant.  

 

Historically, the 3.5/5.6 Summaron gave way to the M mount Emarit 2.8.  But, it really wasn't until the version IV of the Elmarit that the sharpness across the frame caught up to the 1950 designed Summaron 2.8/5.6.  

 

The little Summaron's double Gauss design although, optically not on the level of the latest Summicron, produces a classic look that is still optically relevant compared to modern lenses.  

 

Rick

 

[zlatkob]

28/5.6 and 28/2 v2's vignetting according to Leica's technical data:

 

LeicaM_2820v2vs2856_web.jpg

 

That is a lot of vignetting at f/5.6 and, I guess, consistent with the above image example.  The charts indicate a loss of more than 80% of the light at the corners.

[Rick]

That is a lot of vignetting at f/5.6 and, I guess, consistent with the above image example.  The charts indicate a loss of more than 80% of the light at the corners.

 

 

I agree, it is a lot of vignetting.  But, the Summaron is only less than 1/2 of a stop less than the venerable current Summicron.  I shoot both lenses and both have a lot of vignetting.  My Summacron is often vey dark in the corners.

[willeica]

I have the 3.5/35mm LTM Summaron and it is almost a doppelgänger for the 2.8/5.6 Summaron we are discussing.  It is another really nice lens, both build and image quality-wise.  Interesting to me that you mention this lens.  I feel like we are on the same page.  

 

But, the 35mm/3.5 Summaron is not even close to being as optically advanced as the 2.8/5.6 Summaron.  The 3.5/3.5 Summaron is a moderate contrast lens that is only sharp on axis and drops off precipitously by 6mm.  Even stopping it down to 5.6 only improve softness a little bit across the frame.  

 

I also own the 3.5/35mm Summaron LTM and really like the way it renders regardless of its optical limitations.  But, it can not compare to modern lens designs the way the 2.8/5.6 Summaron can.  I believe this is why Leica chose the 3.5/5.6 Summaron.  The 3.5/5.6 Summaron is still optically relevant.  

 

Historically, the 3.5/5.6 Summaron gave way to the M mount Emarit 2.8.  But, it really wasn't until the version IV of the Elmarit that the sharpness across the frame caught up to the 1950 designed Summaron 2.8/5.6.  

 

The little Summaron's double Gauss design although, optically not on the level of the latest Summicron, produces a classic look that is still optically relevant compared to modern lenses.  

 

Rick

 

 

Thanks Rick. Yes the f3.5 35mm Summaron is not as good as the f5.6 2.8 cm Summaron but the lens is still much better than some might expect and is available at a reasonable price to enable users to experiment with digital plus 'vintage look'. Any picture is worth a thousand words. Rather than analysing graphs and discussing optical formulae, my contribution is another photo, taken this time on the Leica M9 with the f3.5 35mm Summaron. By the purest of coincidences this was taken in the same location as the second set of photos in my article on the 2.8 cm lens linked above, but five years earlier and in much better weather.

 

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I might add that this looks much better on my iMac at home than it does here. I am happy to mail a better copy to anyone who is really interested.

 

William

[jaapv]

I would not take the risk with any collapsible lens. If Leica produce any new versions of older collapsible lenses they should clarify this at the outset. While I am on the subject, the collapsible Summar produces lovely images on the M8 with wonderful swirly 'bokeh' when shot near to wide open.

 

 

 

 

I only got a tiny bit of vignetting with the 2.8cm f 5.6 Summaron on the M240. This, in the few cases where it arose, was fixed in seconds in Lightroom. I am sure that the new version will be even better in this regard.

 

William

They did clarify. I am parroting Leica.

[jaapv]

Where is the information that this is a recalculated optical formula? Granted there's modern coating but that's different from recalculating a lens optically.

 

Philip

 

To continue my answer, Leica has just confirmed the redesign:

 

The Leica M can be used with a multitude of lenses far beyond those available from the current portfolio. Frequently, photographers use lenses with a “vintage” signature to achieve particular effects that are difficult to reproduce, even with the most modern digital post-processing software. The Summaron wide-angle, now more than 50 years old, is a particularly popular and compact lens that has been recreated with an M-bayonet mount, 6-bit coding, and a slightly revised design.

[willeica]

They did clarify. I am parroting Leica.

 

Thanks Jaap. Can you point to where they said this? I, for one, will not be collapsing any such lenses on Digital Ms. A study which I made recently indicated a degree of variation in barrel length in early Elmars. I did not look at the contemporary f2.5 Hektor, but the barrel on that seems even longer. It is not worth it to cause damage needlessly. I somehow doubt that the people working at Leica today have all of the data on all lenses produced 80 or 90 years ago. The clarification I was referring to was in relation to a modern version of a collapsible lens made under modern engineering tolerances and variations.

 

William

[jaapv]

Thanks Jaap. Can you point to where they said this? I, for one, will not be collapsing any such lenses on Digital Ms. A study which I made recently indicated a degree of variation in barrel length in early Elmars. I did not look at the contemporary f2.5 Hektor, but the barrel on that seems even longer. It is not worth it to cause damage needlessly. I somehow doubt that the people working at Leica today have all of the data on all lenses produced 80 or 90 years ago. The clarification I was referring to was in relation to a modern version of a collapsible lens made under modern engineering tolerances and variations.

 

William

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/216580-leica-m8-m82-m9-m9p-mm-mtyp240-faqs-questions-with-answers/?p=2464102

 

Can't find the reference for the confirmation by Leica on the fly

[wattsy]

To continue my answer, Leica has just confirmed the redesign:

 

 

 

The instruction booklet (downloadable from the Leica website) has some interesting things to say about the design of the new lens.

 

 

This Leica Summaron 1:5,6/28mm is a replica of the model originally introduced in 1955. With its 6 lens elements arranged strictly symmetrically around the aperture in 4 groups, it has the same optical design. Its extremely compact mechanical construction also corresponds to the original. Unlike this, however, the current model is equipped with the M bayonet including 6 bit code. Furthermore, various external details have been adapted to the appearance of the current M lenses, for example the shape of the focus unlock button, the diameter of the aperture ring and the knurling.

Even when fully open, the lens is characterized by high-contrast rendering in large areas of the eld of view. Stopping down to 11 greatly improves the imaging performance in the corners of the picture. Although stopping down further enhances the picture corners even more, this is at the expense of the overall contrast, i.e. the imaging performance is more even overall. When the aperture is open, vignetting is max., i.e. in the image corners, approx. 2.5 aperture stages. By stopping down to 8 vignetting can be reduced to approx. 1.8 aperture stages. Distortion is negligible.

Summary: Due to its imaging properties and its focal length, the new edition of the Leica Summaron 1:5,6/28mm is suitable for quick and discreet photography, in other words spontaneous snapshots. Its extremely small dimensions together with the camera make an extremely manageable unit that is easy to carry. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by wattsy

[earleygallery]

LOL the usual Leica communications, full of mystery and intrigue! 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[earleygallery]

Well this little Leica lens is creating quite a lot of interest here and elsewhere, which is possibly their main aim in releasing it. 

 

I'd buy one if I had the spare cash, it will no doubt be limited to actual orders and increase in value over time. Much more of a 'collector' edition than another recovered M camera. 

 

Lomo do the same thing and also get blasted for it. I think it's great to revisit the past, rather than striving for ever more clinically 'correct' optics.