Portrait / 90mm lenses

[Mahesh]

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This topic of 90mm lenses have been discussed many times I know. But I thought I should contribute too, with my own post and some findings.

 

With my quest to get a Leica mount portrait lens for my Sony A7ii camera, I visited red dot cameras in London.

 

I tried various lenses as below

 

1) 80 Lux-R (similar to 75 lux it is said)

2) 100/2.8 APO-R

3) 90 elmarit-m

4) 90 Summicron-m (non APO)

5) 90/4 macro elmar m

 

I attach a collage of pictures (raw, unprocessed) made with maximum aperture of each lens, except number 2.

 

Unfortunately, I did not like elmarit, you can see why from the attached picture. It feels too warm to me (bottom left).

For me, I think the top left (80-lux) and top right (90 cron, non APO) have the best rendition; Lux for its dreamy magical look and the non APO for being very pleasant with good skin tones.

 

macro elmar m (bottom right) is good too, but it won't achieve much separation with f4 over cron.

 

I know this is a very limited set-up and these lenses will work differently outdoors.

 

What do people think  based on my attachment?

 

 

 

 

[Westend_jon]

Hi - can't see the attachment?

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[Mahesh]

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doh! it wasn't easy the first time!

 

I selected the file but did not then click on attach this file and add to the post.

[Westend_jon]

Top right looks the best but's subjective. I have a 90mm Summicron which is a lovely lens but very heavy so you want to take the weight / size into account.

 

PS Just reread your post and realised that I picked out the shot taken with the 90mm Summicron!

[lct]

Different apertures, different DoFs, different FoVs, too many variables to compare IMHO. For sharp portraits i would chose M or R 90/2 apo, R 100/2.8 apo or M 90/4 macro. For softer results, M 75/1.4, R 80/1.4, M or R 90/2 pre-apo. Better compromise to me is the R 90/2 pre-apo. YMMV.

[wpm]

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Damn, I was going to sell my 90 summicron pre-asph, agreeing with Westend_jon about the weight, but now?

[tobey bilek]

100 apo picks up skin texture on a two year old.  Nice for character portraits

 

90 pre ASPH I keep because of the slightly soft portrait rendering.

 

90 2.8 elmar V2 for tradition portrait rendering.  Not Tele versions

[bocaburger]

The test shots appear taken at different distances and exposure, so it's really hard to ascribe what I'm seeing to the lenses.   I have owned all the mentioned lenses except the 90 and 100 Macro, however II did own the 75 Lux.  The 90 Cron pre-ASPH (e55 version) is my hands-down favorite Leica 90, and is one lens I would never sell.  I prefer the "thin" T-E as a travel lens because of the weight, and it works ok for portraiture too.  But the 90 Cron is special.  If you only use it on a Sony, the R lens is pretty much identical in performance characteristics and size, and probably costs less.

[Mahesh]

Thanks for your responses. All very helpful. Looking at the pictures I posted, I think I like all of them. 

But I can only buy one until I win a lottery. I might go with 90 cron pre-asph or 80 lux-r. My brain says 90 cron and heart says 80 lux-r.

[lct]

I have no experience with R 80/1.4 but i'm using an M 75/1.4 with pleasure on my A7s mod. It is less heavy that the R (490 vs 625g) and is quite soft at f/1.4 but it is its charm. At f/2 it is still softer than my 90/2 v2 & v3 (let alone apo) but at f/2.8 and on, 75/1.4 and 90/2 pre-apo are more or less on par. Beware that 75/1.4 may have some focus shift around f/4 though but it is not a problem when focussing at real aperture on TTL cameras. Great lens anyway but i would not rule out R 90/2 pre-apo v1 (# 11219) or v2 (# 11254). I have no experience with v2 but v1 (pic) is one of my favorite 90s ever and can be had for little money compared to M Lenses. One of the best Leica bargains with the R 60/2.8 IMHO.

 

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[LocalHero1953]

Different apertures, different DoFs, different FoVs, too many variables to compare IMHO. For sharp portraits i would chose M or R 90/2 apo, R 100/2.8 apo or M 90/4 macro. For softer results, M 75/1.4, R 80/1.4, M or R 90/2 pre-apo. Better compromise to me is the R 90/2 pre-apo. YMMV.

+1

How did you set WB: fixed or Auto? In any case, the warmth of one over another is way down my list of criteria, as it is easy to correct in post. As a better judge of colour rendering I would reset WB in LR/PS using a neutral element in the image, or a ColorChecker Passport, or even manually. If it is impossible to achieve an acceptable colour, then I would worry, not before.

Are you sure of your focus? These images are OK for skin colour, but I would use a fixed target and a tripod for sharpness.

 

In general, if I can achieve an acceptable image (colour, sharpness, bokeh, edge-to-edge behaviour) from a lens after minimal post processing, then other criteria come to the fore: weight, balance, mount, close focus, do I want macro - even price, believe it or not!

 

Best of luck to you with a 90 shot manually wide open for portraits. I can do it, but spending that extra little bit of time to achieve exact focus can lose you the momentary expression you'd rather capture. I have the 90mm Apo-Summicron-M which I am likely to trade in for the 90mm Summicron-SL when it comes. I have the 75 Apo-Summicron-M, which is a bit more tolerant of focus.

 

If I had my time again, I would have gone for the Macro-Elmar: more than good enough IQ, no buttock-clenching depth of field (but still good enough to isolate the subject), small and light, and macro option as well.

 

Edit: I also have the Hektor 7.3cm f/1.9, which I keep for granny portraits. Beautifully soft (aka massive dispersion and flare).

Edited October 11, 2016 by LocalHero1953

[Mahesh]

+1

How did you set WB: fixed or Auto? In any case, the warmth of one over another is way down my list of criteria, as it is easy to correct in post. As a better judge of colour rendering I would reset WB in LR/PS using a neutral element in the image, or a ColorChecker Passport, or even manually....Are you sure of your focus? These images are OK for skin colour, but I would use a fixed target and a tripod for sharpness. .....Edit: I also have the Hektor 7.3cm f/1.9, which I keep for granny portraits. Beautifully soft (aka massive dispersion and flare).

Hi Paul, thanks for your comments. 

 

The WB was auto and this was really a 20 minutes quick test run between these lenses that I had narrowed down. I wanted to get a feel of difference in rendering between these lenses. One could argue that with a good amount of processing all of these could be made to look similar, except prabably 80lux-r as that is in its class of its own.

 

I am not sure of the focus on 80-lux in this picture. However, post-processing, it looks good. I found that there are mysterious lights in many of the lux pictures I took, which look very filmic. That almost mirrors what overgaard says in his post "Also, when shot against light sources, the light will flow over the image. " http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/144385-leica-r-8014-summilux-dmr/

 

I will post a couple tonight when I go home.

 

I don't use tripod as I like to carry minimum gear together and have no professional interests. My photography is purely oriented to take portraits of my partner (featured :-)  and family and also trying and reading about lenses, etc.

 

The other lens I have is zm 50 sonnar which I adore. I have been itching to get a long lens for some time.

[spydrxx]

If you're just planning to use the lens on your Sony and size/weight/portability is important, A good lens for portraits is the old Elmar 90 f/4. Although I have others, that is the one I keep in my bag...works on old Barnacks, M bodies, and m3/4. It does flare when shooting into the sun, so I also keep a hood handy, although not often used. Soft wide open, sharpens up around 5.6-8 and contrast improves as well. Available for a pittance.

[lct]

I have no experience with the Elmar-C but the M-Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CLE is another bargain to think about. Here on the right with a Tele-Elmarit "thin" 90/2.8 which is more flare prone than the Rokkor. 

 

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[haljaberi]

Different apertures, different DoFs, different FoVs, too many variables to compare IMHO. For sharp portraits i would chose M or R 90/2 apo, R 100/2.8 apo or M 90/4 macro. For softer results, M 75/1.4, R 80/1.4, M or R 90/2 pre-apo. Better compromise to me is the R 90/2 pre-apo. YMMV.

 

 

Sorry to jump in, but I could not find good comparison for both M 90/2 Summicron Pre-ASPH and APO. Is there any reliable user reviews available? Because I am considering adding 90 mm to my collection, and I feel Pre-ASPH photos are more appealing to me. 

[Mahesh]

Hi again... I processed the 'warm' 90 elmarit-m as well and make it look similar to cron. 

Here are the pictures, first 80 Lux-r, the king or queen of the lenses :-)

 

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[Mahesh]

The next is 90 cron, king of the series.. 

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[Mahesh]

and now the widely applauded... 90 elmarit m

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Mahesh]

The tiny macro elmar ..

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