Long exposures problems with typ 246

[Giulio Zanni]

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When doing long exposures often I get a pitch black part of the frame. I have been doing long exposures for many years so it's not user error. It is not about the lens or the filter as i noticed the same behaviour with different lenses and filters and with both my typ 246 bodies. It is not light leak, otherwise it would be burnt out instead of being black. It doesn't always happen, but on a bad day it's messing up my images. I attach an image for your reference, look at the right bottom corner (yes I know the image is over-exposed but the highlights are not burnt out and it's just a frame from my bracketing technique...).

 

Thanks for your views, Giulio

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Edited October 3, 2016 by Giulio Zanni

[luigi bertolotti]

You mean that the area I (roughly) encircled ought not to be SO dark ?

 

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[Giulio Zanni]

You mean that the area I (roughly) encircled ought not to be SO dark ?

 

M246_LUF.jpg

 

 

Yes, exactly, it's pitch black and there is no transition, some time it happens in other parts of the frame

[luigi bertolotti]

Should it happen in a single camera, I'd say that there is something about shutter... but you say that it happens randomly, on two bodies, and even in different areas of the frame...  and ONLY with long exposures... to me, with those facts, is a mistery...  Isn't by chance that you use some "special" hood ? In the above frame, there is significant vignetting at top corners (maybe at bottom left, too... which lens was used ?) ....

My only advice is to search for some consistent reproduction of the issue in "controlled" environment (some "easy" takings in interiors... filterless, normal lighting...)

Edited October 3, 2016 by luigi bertolotti

[Giulio Zanni]

Should it happen in a single camera, I'd say that there is something about shutter... but you say that it happens randomly, on two bodies, and even in different areas of the frame...  and ONLY with long exposures... to me, with those facts, is a mistery...  Isn't by chance that you use some "special" hood ? In the above frame, there is significant vignetting at top corners (maybe at bottom left, too... which lens was used ?) ....

My only advice is to search for some consistent reproduction of the issue in "controlled" environment (some "easy" takings in interiors... filterless, normal lighting...)

 

 

Vignetting is normal with long exposures, but what I get is something different, pitch black blobs with no transition. I am afraid it's a sensor issue, but not just on my cameras....

[pico]

Are you using a lens profile, and if Yes, which one, please?

.

 

[Giulio Zanni]

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Are you using a lens profile, and if Yes, which one, please?

.

No I don't use any lens profile but then I see the problem when I review the images on the back of the camera so is not a post-processing software related problem

[250swb]

No I don't use any lens profile but then I see the problem when I review the images on the back of the camera so is not a post-processing software related problem

No, nothing to do with post processing, but you need to use a lens profile in the camera, as in the coding of the lens or manually setting a lens code. If you find a code doesn't work try another and see if it is better. You also have a great amount of dust on your sensor, are you sure the vignetting isn't caused by a rock or nest lodged in the corner of the sensor?

 

 

Steve

[luigi bertolotti]

No, nothing to do with post processing, but you need to use a lens profile in the camera, as in the coding of the lens or manually setting a lens code. If you find a code doesn't work try another and see if it is better. You also have a great amount of dust on your sensor, are you sure the vignetting isn't caused by a rock or nest lodged in the corner of the sensor?

 

 

Steve

He says it happens also in different areas of the frame... this indeed is the strangest thing...

[Giulio Zanni]

No, nothing to do with post processing, but you need to use a lens profile in the camera, as in the coding of the lens or manually setting a lens code. If you find a code doesn't work try another and see if it is better. You also have a great amount of dust on your sensor, are you sure the vignetting isn't caused by a rock or nest lodged in the corner of the sensor?

 

 

Steve

All my lenses are 6-bit. I know I have dust but last time I cleaned the sensor I had to send the camera to Germany as the shutter remained stuck half opened after exiting from the sensor cleaning mode, so I try to delay the cleaning...

Edited October 4, 2016 by Giulio Zanni

[Giulio Zanni]

He says it happens also in different areas of the frame... this indeed is the strangest thing...

It usually happens in the borders/corners

[Giulio Zanni]

I didn't want to go there but I am starting to think about the SL option, I just had so many hiccups with these bodies (bandings, problems with long exposures, defective shutter), but I just love to get black and white files straight out of the camera

[Giulio Zanni]

I addressed the problem to Leica and I got another useless reply. I sent them the raw files and first they came back asking irrelevant questions: where the photograph was taken, co-ordinates of the location (if they could only provide a functioning gps there would be no need to ask), time in which the photograph was taken, aperture, shutter speed (can't they see this form the metadata?). After a couple of days they came back saying that they believed it was a shadow from the coastline. Even a blind would see that there is no transition in the pitch black area. I now sent them one of the good files (showed below), which was shot in the same place, at the same time, with the same camera and with the same lens, which clearly show that there was no shadow in the bottom right corner. They offered me to send my equipment in to be checked. Since it's not a specific camera or lens problem I am not going to send all my equipment in and be left naked for months. 

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Edited October 7, 2016 by Giulio Zanni

[pico]

[...]

 

Am I the first suggest that sensor heat might be an issue?

 

Regarding Leica's request for GPS information, they might be considering in-camera, sensor response to linearly polarized light. Members who have photographed on the equator, and at the poles might be able to help us.

 

PS: There is enough sensor corrosion (maybe dust) to warrant attention, but it does not contribute to the issue at-hand.

Edited October 7, 2016 by pico

[Giulio Zanni]

Am I the first suggest that sensor heat might be an issue?

 

Regarding Leica's request for GPS information, they might be considering in-camera, sensor response to linearly polarized light. Members who have photographed on the equator, and at the poles might be able to help us.

 

 

That's my point, I believe there is a general problem on how this sensor capture the light in long exposures, despite the fact that is limited to a maximum of only 60 seconds. In fact, the last problem free image that I posted was not a long exposure. Still, I don't understand how some of the long exposures come out ok. The images were shot in Albania, so definitively not under extreme light conditions. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Giulio Zanni

[pico]

Is that by chance Lake Ohrid in the background?

It looks strange.

[Giulio Zanni]

Is that by chance Lake Ohrid in the background?

It looks strange.

 

 

Yes it is, the Albanian part, this is the processed image. It's one of 750.000 bunkers established by the former dictator Enver Hoxha. The current government is dismantling them. 

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Edited October 7, 2016 by Giulio Zanni

[pico]

Very cool! An important picture now, and after the bunker has been removed. Before/After.

 

Lake Ohrid is in itself an amazing ecosystem. World famous.

 

Thanks for the photo!

[Giulio Zanni]

Very cool! An important picture now, and after the bunker has been removed. Before/After.

 

Lake Ohrid is in itself an amazing ecosystem. World famous.

 

Thanks for the photo!

 

 

Thank you Pico for your feedback!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Giulio Zanni]

After furthet enquiring, Leica wrote me that they don't have a technical explanation. This is the second let down I am getting from them and I am starting to look some where else. I also reflected on the possibility that the problem could be caused by sensor heating but to me that's unlikely, as I had the same problem in Hokkaido, in Jannuary, with -30.