Very torn, should I get a S type 006, S type 007 or just use my SL???

[bilbrown]

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37MP is not much higher resolution to the 24 in the SL,

not by the 4000 x 6000 and 44MB+ DNGs of the SL as opposed to

the 37MB+ DNGs and 4992 x 7512 px resolution of the Type 006

 

is the Typ 007 that much more?

 

 

 

I know it is supposed to be medium format like

but since it isn't 645 sized (it actually reduces to the same basic rectangle as the full frame SL

 

what is the real benefit?

 

 

Especially with all the supposed issues with the S lens line up

AF motors dying???

 

 

(I ask because I have used the CCD typ006, and own the SL... and also own a Pentax 645Z but am thinking of getting a Type 006 or Type 007

and at this point... I just don't know...)

[Deliberate1]

So, my friend, what would either S iteration do for you and your work that you can not now accomplish with the two very capable cameras you currently own? Until you can answer that question, the differences between the 006 and 007 are irrelevant.

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[bilbrown]

So, my friend, what would either S iteration do for you and your work that you can not now accomplish with the two very capable cameras you currently own? Until you can answer that question, the differences between the 006 and 007 are irrelevant.

 

 

I am just considering keeping with Leica across the board (as you know, I can also use the S lens line up with the SL via adapter), and I often use the medium format rendering.

 

Plus, there are a few things that I don't use with the Pentax, that aren't totally needed (I don't use HALF the buttons on the thing).

 

 

I like it just fine, it was more of a should I try to stay Leica all the way (I also have a few digital M's and film M bodies and M, R, and SL lenses)

 

 

 

But I was more wondering if the issues with the S lens motors is really prevalent (one of the boutiques here in LA has THREE of their lenses out to Germany for repair because of faulty AF mechanisms and motors), and the rendering isn't THAT different than the SL... I won't bother until an update to the Typ 007.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I have an SL, Pentax 645Z and an S2. I got the S2 and a few lenses to shoot alongside my SL when shooting weddings and commercial portraits. Occasionally I go through the same process, thinking about upgrading to a type 007 and selling the Pentax gear. Here are my thoughts.

 

1. The Pentax does some things really well that the S system doesn't. No compulsory long exposure noise reduction. Super long exposure times. The S maxes out at 125 seconds (2 minutes plus a bit). I've shott 22 minute exposures on the Pentax. The Pentax has a flip screen which is super useful. The DA lenses forcus faster than the S. FA lenses are about the same, but faster than my S2. There's a huge range of good lenses available cheap on the used market. The Pentax has more resolution and more dynamic range and lower contrast. The 28-45 is sensational and has IS. That and the 45-85 are nearly a two lens landscape kit. I do wish Pentax/Ricoh would finally announce the release of the new DA45-85 and 80-160 they've had on their roadmap for two years. That'd make a world of difference.

 

2. The S lenses are better, especially wide open. The new DA lenses are very close but the FA lenses never quite catch the S lenses. I've had one lens fixed only. It's a pain but free for life. Rumors are a new part will be soon available and repaired lenses won't fail again. There are leaf shutter lenses for the S but not for the Pentax. You can use S lenses on the SL but the AF is slow.

 

3. I prefer the layout on the S, although my S2 isn't as nice as the 007. You'll feel familiar with the S straight away.

 

Personally, if I were shooting landscapes I'd keep the Pentax. If I were shooting studio or people I'd get the Leica. If Leica got rid of the compulsory LENR and 125 second limit then the Leica would be a far more competitive landscape camera. Likewise the lack of LS lenses for the Pentax makes the Leica a better option for working with lights.

 

Gordon

[dfarkas]

While 37.5 may not seem like a huge jump from 24 MP, it is still almost 60% more pixels. So, yes, there is a tangible difference in resolution.

 

I'd say the biggest image quality difference between the SL and the S007 is the dynamic range. The S007 has 15.3 stops, which is the most of any still camera on the market from any manufacturer. Moving from the S006 to the S007 allowed me to change my approach to high contrast landscape scenes. Now, I just expose for the highlights and let the shadows go dark. I'm easily able to pull the shadows up 3 stops noise free and end up with images that still look normal, not HDR-ish. I've been able to rely less on GND filters and just shoot. The tonal range of the S is just spectacular. 

 

Low light performance between the SL and the S007 is about the same, with truly excellent ISO 6400 results on both. 

 

SL lenses are fantastic as are S lenses. Nothing short of class-leading among the entire selection. Being able to use S lenses on the SL is a plus. 

 

Both the SL and the S are fully weather sealed, but I'd give a slight edge to the S, which I think is more robust. I've personally shot the S in some pretty nasty conditions and never had a problem. 

 

Lastly, the S has one of the nicest optical viewfinders available - large, bright, and color neutral. The SL has the nicest EVF by far. Different shooting experience.

 

Hope this helps.

 

For more details on my thoughts, you can check out my reviews of each camera:

 

Leica SL (Typ 601) Review: A Professional Mirrorless Camera

 

Leica S (Typ 007) Review

 

My photographic adventure through Iceland with the Leica S (Typ 007) Edited October 3, 2016 by dfarkas

[Jeff S]

David addressed the pluses well. The elephant in the room is of course the lens AF motor issues.  Each person needs to make his/her own assessment on the issue, as Leica has not clarified the circumstances, only agreeing to service any broken lenses for free, albeit without any turnaround commitment.  There are at least a half dozen related threads in the S forum.  Having read them all, it does not yet appear that there is a permanent fix; otherwise I expect that David would have mentioned it.

 

As I wrote elsewhere, assuming a fix is forthcoming, how Leica deals with all existing S lens owners will say a lot about the company....for better or worse.  So far, the company addressed similar gear issues, e.g., the M8 LCD and the M9 sensor corrosion problems...albeit not without robust airing on the forum, so we'll see if this follows suit.

 

Jeff

[bilbrown]

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While 37.5 may not seem like a huge jump from 24 MP, it is still almost 60% more pixels. So, yes, there is a tangible difference in resolution.

 

I'd say the biggest image quality difference between the SL and the S007 is the dynamic range. The S007 has 15.3 stops, which is the most of any still camera on the market from any manufacturer. Moving from the S006 to the S007 allowed me to change my approach to high contrast landscape scenes. Now, I just expose for the highlights and let the shadows go dark. I'm easily able to pull the shadows up 3 stops noise free and end up with images that still look normal, not HDR-ish. I've been able to rely less on GND filters and just shoot. The tonal range of the S is just spectacular. 

 

Low light performance between the SL and the S007 is about the same, with truly excellent ISO 6400 results on both. 

 

SL lenses are fantastic as are S lenses. Nothing short of class-leading among the entire selection. Being able to use S lenses on the SL is a plus. 

 

Both the SL and the S are fully weather sealed, but I'd give a slight edge to the S, which I think is more robust. I've personally shot the S in some pretty nasty conditions and never had a problem. 

 

Lastly, the S has one of the nicest optical viewfinders available - large, bright, and color neutral. The SL has the nicest EVF by far. Different shooting experience.

 

Hope this helps.

 

For more details on my thoughts, you can check out my reviews of each camera:

 

Leica SL (Typ 601) Review: A Professional Mirrorless Camera

 

Leica S (Typ 007) Review

 

My photographic adventure through Iceland with the Leica S (Typ 007)

 

 

 

 

OH you are from the Miami Leica Store! I deal with all of the California variations, from Tibor at Samy's to the flagship Beverly Hills Leica Store and Gallery to the guys and gals up in SF...

 

The S typ006 came WAY down on the used market. That doesn't particular give me hope in a lot of ways of keeping a system I can resell if need be and it work out even. IT seems to have a similar digital obsolecense to other manufacturers, which is odd for a Leica!!

 

I am a fashion and portrait photographer, some reportage and "street". The Pentax has given me some life of late, but I just can't seem to shake the feeling that to keep consistent images I should stick with my Leica base.

 

 

It's really just thinking about the 006 or 007 at this point, and putting my Pentax on the market I suppose.

[bilbrown]

David addressed the pluses well. The elephant in the room is of course the lens AF motor issues.  Each person needs to make his/her own assessment on the issue, as Leica has not clarified the circumstances, only agreeing to service any broken lenses for free, albeit without any turnaround commitment.  There are at least a half dozen related threads in the S forum.  Having read them all, it does not yet appear that there is a permanent fix; otherwise I expect that David would have mentioned it.

 

As I wrote elsewhere, assuming a fix is forthcoming, how Leica deals with all existing S lens owners will say a lot about the company....for better or worse.  So far, the company addressed similar gear issues, e.g., the M8 LCD and the M9 sensor corrosion problems...albeit not without robust airing on the forum, so we'll see if this follows suit.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

Yes the AF issue kinda worries me. I don't have time/money to have an expensive system just sitting while I wait for a lens to come back from Germany

[alan.y]

Yes the AF issue kinda worries me. I don't have time/money to have an expensive system just sitting while I wait for a lens to come back from Germany

 

Yes, and there're also shipping fees and risks of theft and loss.

 

I've spent about $600 shipping S equipment to Leica from Hong Kong already (1 body, 4 lenses).

[John McMaster]

When I was in NZ I sent my M stuff via the NZ distributor who shouldered the international freight, my S stuff only started going wrong recently (since I returned to Europe) and they email me UPS pre-paid forms for shipping....

 

john

[alan.y]

When I was in NZ I sent my M stuff via the NZ distributor who shouldered the international freight, my S stuff only started going wrong recently (since I returned to Europe) and they email me UPS pre-paid forms for shipping....

 

john

 

Unfortunately the Hong Kong agent (Schmidt) charges about USD $125 per item (not per shipment), more if the item is not registered. I've asked Leica Germany for UPS labels, but they said they couldn't provide these due to tax reasons. 

 

I am now (sort of) back in the US. Maybe New Jersey will help.

 

My S007's problem is really just the detached (40% at this point) rubber armor, so I'd rather not mail it in and wait months.

 

My S45 is now broken. My S100 doesn't focus properly (after AF repair). If Leica were to tell me today that the permanent fix to the AF problem was available, I'd just make a trip to Germany with everything and spend a week there. It might end up being cheaper, and definitely more enjoyable.

Edited October 3, 2016 by alan.y

[Photoskeptic]

 

 

 

The S typ006 came WAY down on the used market. That doesn't particular give me hope in a lot of ways of keeping a system I can resell if need be and it work out even. IT seems to have a similar digital obsolecense to other manufacturers, which is odd for a Leica!!

 

EVERY digital camera, not limited to Leica btw, comes WAY down in price once it has been out for a few years. With Leica you do pay a premium - goes with the territory, just like buying a new car. That said, Leica digital cameras continue to provide excellent results regardless of age. It all comes down to how good a photographer you are. James Russell, one of the top professional cameramen working today, still uses an S2 and gets wonderful results. IMO, too many photographers chase the latest and greatest when what they should really be pursuing is using what they have and perfecting their technique.

[R3D-D0T]

If you print big or want more dynamic range in your photos, the S is great to get.

But given it's price point and AF issues, why not consider other medium format cameras, especially since they can accept S lenses with an adaptor? Unless you really need that weather sealing for wherever you go...

[John McMaster]

What other medium format camera accepts Leica S lenses?

 

john

[Joakim]

None that I've heard of.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I went through your pain already.........in the end I went for the S007 and it was the best thing I could have done. Listen to those that have bean through your pain not just hear say

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Im also in the camp of all my lenses are fixed so really don't give a sh!t about any more AF issues. I also have the contact at Leica CC that says he can make me any S lens with a guarantee that the AF won't break............. as of right now I am cool with all the lenses that I have

[Jeff S]

Im also in the camp of all my lenses are fixed so really don't give a sh!t about any more AF issues. I also have the contact at Leica CC that says he can make me any S lens with a guarantee that the AF won't break............. as of right now I am cool with all the lenses that I have

 

And it took many months of griping, and lamenting your choice, to get to this point.  Seems fair to give the OP some perspective on potential purchase.  Of course one hopes Leica will eventually publicly offer a solution for all, not some private deal.

 

You also thought before getting the S that it would be no problem carrying it around all day with a bunch of lenses.  Then you found out differently and commented a lot about the limitations.  I think that also deserves mention in a thread where the OP is considering pros and cons of the S versus SL.

 

As for file quality differences, he should check it out further for himself IMO.  

 

Jeff

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Jeff is correct

Lugging the S around all day with more than one lens is a pain in the arse...........for me i'm the kind of drive to a location take a picture and drive to the next location....everyone to there own.

At the end of the day for me its not only the amazing files that the S007 gives you but the experience of shooting it.......Kind of like shooting a Hasselblad 500 series camera, once you've don it you want to keep doing it :) 

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[Guest]

IMO, too many photographers chase the latest and greatest when what they should really be pursuing is using what they have and perfecting their technique.

 

Me included so I am sticking with my SL and being very happy with the results it gives with M and R lenses.