djmay Posted September 30, 2016 Share #1 Posted September 30, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have had a running dialog with Leica regarding S system problems since this summer. I have been encouraged by how Leica has responded. Consequently, I am visiting Wetzlar next Tuesday and will be discussing the resolution of the various problems. I will also be touring the facilities and manufacturing operations. If there is any interest, I will provide feedback to this forum. Jesse 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Hi djmay, Take a look here Upcoming visit to Leica Wetzlar. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
R3D-D0T Posted September 30, 2016 Share #2 Posted September 30, 2016 OP plz deliver Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted September 30, 2016 Share #3 Posted September 30, 2016 Please do, I have had the S2-P sensor replaced and on my 3rd AF motor replacement within 12 months. It has cost me nothing financially (they send out postage paid UPS labels), but it would be good to not have to do it ;-) Also no firmware updates for the original S2/S2-P nor standalone updates for the lenses for those of us with original bodies.... john 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chipcarterdc Posted September 30, 2016 Share #4 Posted September 30, 2016 Please ask them directly what the **** exactly they plan to do to permanently repair the AF issue with S lenses (beyond fixing them with the same part *after* they break). In other words, what they will do to restore confidence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted September 30, 2016 Share #5 Posted September 30, 2016 John, I would be interested to know if there is an existing S assembly area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted September 30, 2016 Share #6 Posted September 30, 2016 Thanks Jesse. Very interested in anything and everything you could pass along from the visit. Inside scoops also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicapages Posted October 2, 2016 Share #7 Posted October 2, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have had a running dialog with Leica regarding S system problems since this summer. I have been encouraged by how Leica has responded. Consequently, I am visiting Wetzlar next Tuesday and will be discussing the resolution of the various problems. I will also be touring the facilities and manufacturing operations. If there is any interest, I will provide feedback to this forum. Jesse Go for it. Was there in May to drop off a faulty S 006 camera and was very well received. Repair (new sensor) done at no cost and sent back to me within the week. Excellent service. Always good to look around in the store and the museum. Also do not forget the outlet store located in a container-looking building outside. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicapages Posted October 2, 2016 Share #8 Posted October 2, 2016 Forgot to mention that you can have lunch in the factory self-service restaurant at good prices. Also, do not forget to drop by the Leitz Café located just in front of the building. Excellent cakes (Beware as only payments in cash are accepted) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan.y Posted October 2, 2016 Share #9 Posted October 2, 2016 Ditto, more transparency (as opposed to none) about the AF failure problem. I recently rewatched Luminous Landscape's interview with Peter Karbe about 7 years ago. At some point he talks about how Leica chose the DC motor for the S lenses for their "reliability." Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted October 3, 2016 Share #10 Posted October 3, 2016 As was so helpfully pointed out to me recently, it's not the motor that fails, but a plastic gear in the AF mechanism. It was a useless distinction in my discussion, but a valid one here where the choice of DC motor seems independent of the problem plaguing S lenses. --Matt 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 3, 2016 Share #11 Posted October 3, 2016 Some concrete details on the Pro Services plans would be nice. Thanks for asking us. That's very kind of you. While you're there hit them up about the next SL firmware upgrade would you? Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted October 4, 2016 Share #12 Posted October 4, 2016 Please ask about AF issue as it is dominating this forum! Also, ask if they can reincorporate the LED linked histogram on the next upgrade. With the present upgrade, you can select it but it reverts to default (ie not visible on LED) once the camera is turned off. Can they program it so that we have the option of ALWAYS having the histogram appear on LED? A simple and easily granted favor.... Albert 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmrbhs Posted October 6, 2016 Share #13 Posted October 6, 2016 So, what did Leica have to say? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmay Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share #14 Posted October 9, 2016 The following is a summary of my visit to Leica Camera AG in Wetzlar, last week. I had been invited to visit Leica after a catastrophe with my S 006 in July. In short, I was traveling in the U.S. when the S failed and there was no loaner available in the U.S. I was on the way to Iceland to do a shoot that had been planned for six months. I had to do the shoot with my M9, which performed very well. After my return to Germany I had multiple conversations with Leia, and I was invited to Wetzlar to see how committed they were to my satisfaction. Subsequent to the repair of my S 006, I had additional problems that could have been in the camera, the lenses or both. I had random overexposures, slow startup, and depth of field preview button malfunction. I provided a detailed description of the problems to Leica by email. Leica immediately replaced my camera and three lenses with loaners, with the intent that I would exchange the loaners for my equipment when I arrived in Wetzlar. My visit to Wetzlar had positive and negative aspects to it. First the negatives: They were not prepared very well for my visit, which was agreed one month in advance. A key person, with whom I was to meet, was on vacation. I was informed one week prior to the visit and a substitute was arranged. The substitute was not on the premises when I arrived, and another person greeted me. This person was courteous, however did not know the details of my visit. For example, I was to have a factory tour, which no one seemed to know. The substitute person arrived several hours later. I had intended to meet with the S 006 product manager, with whom I had spoken during my S failure catastrophe, however he had not been informed and was not available. The positives: I received an ad hoc factory tour. I did not go into the manufacturing area, because it is a clean room. Camera manufacturing was blocked from view because prototype manufacturing was being done. That should cause a lot of speculation. An interesting note; each M camera is assembled start to finish by a single person. Leica is secretive about the quantity of each individual product is produced. However, 500 finished products in total are produced every day. I also went on the roof of the main building to look over the campus. The buildings are nicely designed, with the layout plan modeled after a camera. The main building is the lens. The heating and cooling is via geothermal. There is quite a lot of construction for new facilities in progress, including a hotel. The exhibits of historic photographs, the history of the products and manufacturing processes are all very well done. The quality of prints from almost 100 year-old negatives is impressive. All my S equipment was checked and repaired. I spoke with the technicians involved with S lens and S body repairs. Depth of field preview malfunction was due to a sticking button on the S body. This was a mechanical problem and repaired. Overexposure on the 180mm lens was due to a mechanical problem causing the diaphragm to occasionally remain open during exposure. This was repaired. All S lenses were inspected for the defective focus mechanism component that fails. None of my lenses contain that component. As I understand it, the solution to the autofocus failure is permanent. My interpretation of the situation is as follows: The defective component was not part of the sub-assembly of all lenses. It is not known by Leica which lenses contain the defective components. The only way to know if a lens has the defective component is to open the lens and inspect, as was done with my lenses. Therefore, I would not expect a recall. Lastly, my M9 was upgraded to a M-P 240, due to the sensor glass corrosion problem. Everyone with whom I spoke was knowledgeable, personable and interested in customer satisfaction. I will see how the reliability of the S system holds up over the next months. I remain optimistic, but my confidence needs to be restored. I have told Leica this and they have promised to do everything they can to win it back. Jesse 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted October 9, 2016 Share #15 Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) Lastly, my M9 was upgraded to a M-P 240, due to the sensor glass corrosion problem. Jesse, could you share the details. I have an M9 with the corroded sensor and would be real interested to know if Leica is offering an upgrade to the 240, and at what price. Perhaps this was a courtesy deal given your experiences. Thanks David Edited October 9, 2016 by Deliberate1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmay Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share #16 Posted October 9, 2016 Jesse, could you share the details. I have an M9 with the corroded sensor and would be real interested to know if Leica is offering an upgrade to the 240, and at what price. Perhaps this was a courtesy deal given your experiences. Thanks David Dave, The upgrade cost me half the price of a new M-P 240. I understand that I am not the only person that has been provided this option. What may have been added courtesy is that it was offered during the planning of my visit. That means the upgrade was waiting for me when I arrived in Wetzlar. I should add that I thought about it quite a bit before I accepted the offer. Jesse Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted October 9, 2016 Share #17 Posted October 9, 2016 Jesse, could you share the details. I have an M9 with the corroded sensor and would be real interested to know if Leica is offering an upgrade to the 240, and at what price. Perhaps this was a courtesy deal given your experiences. Thanks David I can tell you the Euro prices offered if that is of use.... john Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted October 9, 2016 Share #18 Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) I can tell you the Euro prices offered if that is of use.... john Do tell.... Edited October 9, 2016 by Deliberate1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted October 9, 2016 Share #19 Posted October 9, 2016 M9 to M(240) 3300EUR M9 to M-P(240) 3700EUR M9 to M(246) 3980EUR This was from Leica France but probably the same elsewhere.... john 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted October 9, 2016 Share #20 Posted October 9, 2016 Thanks , John. At those prices, my wallet will stay firmly in place. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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