Confirm Leica model - which Leica III is this?

[toanna]

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I just bought a collection of old cameras and found this very funny looking Leica. Serial number says it is Leica III from 1939. It is black paint, but other colorization is very peculiar. I have tried to search from different sites but no clue of this kind color variant. It is paired with same looking Elmar 50/3.5 F=50mm.

 

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[luigi bertolotti]

I just bought a collection of old cameras and found this very funny looking Leica. Serial number says it is Leica III from 1939. It is black paint, but other colorization is very peculiar. I have tried to search from different sites but no clue of this kind color variant. It is paired with same looking Elmar 50/3.5 F=50mm.

The clue is simple...  ...is a fake Leica, probably from Russia : they abound everywhere, and are often painted with fantasy... (not to speak of engravings, which in this item are on the contrary very discrete, apart colouring)

There is a very vague chance that is a rework of an original Leica body... but several details suggest that is based on a FED body.

Edited September 21, 2016 by luigi bertolotti

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[toanna]

The clue is simple...  ...is a fake Leica, probably from Russia : they abound everywhere, and are often painted with fantasy... (not to speak of engravings, which in this item are on the contrary very discrete, apart colouring)

There is a very vague chance that is a rework of an original Leica body... but several details suggest that is based on a FED body.

Thank you Luigi for your clues. That didn't come to my mind. It was very old collection and there were many other Leicas like M3's and M4's. Newest cameras were from 70's.

Do you think they made fake Leicas then?

Do you know how to dedect fake Leica?

I checked http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-213.html

and it suggest that this might be real. Or at least these marks didn't exposed as fake.

[earleygallery]

It doesn't look like a fake to me, just someone's crazy idea for a repaint.

 

It's been done well but you have to ask why?!

[toanna]

It doesn't look like a fake to me, just someone's crazy idea for a repaint.

 

It's been done well but you have to ask why?!

It looks funny, but it really is very good made. It feels like it is factory painted. I was wondering if there is some educational purpose like learning aperture. Or some jubileum version - it looks very beautiful in hands.

[pico]

Thank you Luigi for your clues. That didn't come to my mind. It was very old collection and there were many other Leicas like M3's and M4's. Newest cameras were from 70's.

Do you think they made fake Leicas then? [...]

 

There were were no counterfeits of M2 or M3 cameras, but there were ambitious kinda-look-alikes that oddly are worth more than the Leicas they mimicked, but none were the trash the Russians were making. The sincere Japanese efforts were sincere efforts to compete; to emulate; some of them are them are collectible

[willeica]

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If this is genuine, somebody has done a great job at making the camera looking like a Russian copy. The flash sync at the front would also reduce the value. The best way to tell if it is genuine is to look at the rangefinder cam just inside the lens mount. If it is genuine the cam will be round. If it is a Russian copy, it will usually be triangular or have sharp edges. Neither of these would be conclusive, though, and it would also help if you could show a view of the bottom of the camera with the bottom plate removed.

 

If it is altered but genuine, the camera would not have any great value. Collectors prefer original condition or something close to that.

 

William

[toanna]

Thank you for your answers. Sorry to hear this might be a fake. 

I tried to upload a few more picture but didn't figure how to do in reply or original topic.

 

I checked rangefinder cam and it is round. I'll put photos later today.

[Universalb50]

I would like to know why that camera is not a IIIa that has just been painted in a very unusual manner? Also, it the added flash synch of a very old design, and is the accessory shoe not from a much later camera?

[pop]

How do I upload photos to the forum?

[jaapv]

Now that would be a thing: faking a fake Leica...

[earleygallery]

It's not a fake, you can tell from the photos - the differences on most of the fakes are quite obvious if you know LTM cameras.

 

As I said it's had a repaint (if it's a factory repaint it won't have been at Leica's factory!). There are a number of people who offer repaints, it could even have been a 'demo' camera to show what they could do, perhaps.

 

The pc socket is a common 'upgrade' on the earlier Barnack cameras which weren't equipped for flash.

[jerzy]

Yes, it looks genuine. Both upper corners on the middle VF windows are rounded, Russian copies have squared. They do not have as well long times dial, on some copies I have seen speed dial from Zorki 3 added, with no function, they are however shaped differently.

PC socket is third party. Mysterious is the (third party) accessory shoe, it looks like it has a middle contact. None of LTM cameras had such.

[toanna]

Thank you for your thoughts and ideas. Here are some more details of this camera.

 

It is hard to believe it is a Russian copy. Paintings are very well made and it looks like there is some purpose of the coloratization.

 

Original owner of this camera passed away in 80's or early 90's so meaning of painting and upgraded parts may stay mystery. 

 

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[Universalb50]

...OK, so then it's a Leica lll, with shutter speeds to 1/500, and not anything Russian, nor a 111a?...when "re-restoring" this camera, will the flash sync not be easily removable, and the hole covered over by the new vulcoflux?...

[willeica]

It looks like a genuine Leica III from 1939 based on the rangefinder cam and the details of the bottom of the camera. It is a pity that someone decided to give the camera an exotic paint job and to add a flash sync together with a shoe contact. The black paint job also looks like it has been altered. I have a somewhat earlier black Leica III (from 1937) with chrome fittings and the paint on this one looks a lot less shiny than the paint on my one. Perhaps this one was a repaint of a chrome camera. Some purchasers may think that this looks really nice but, in the collector market, the alterations will have reduced the value of the camera.

 

Here is a photo of my black III from 1937 together with some lenses and accessories:

 

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William

[jaapv]

I think the Vulcanite may have been replaced at some point as well. I would give the camera a gentle restoration.

[toanna]

It looks like a genuine Leica III from 1939 based on the rangefinder cam and the details of the bottom of the camera. It is a pity that someone decided to give the camera an exotic paint job and to add a flash sync together with a shoe contact. The black paint job also looks like it has been altered. I have a somewhat earlier black Leica III (from 1937) with chrome fittings and the paint on this one looks a lot less shiny than the paint on my one. Perhaps this one was a repaint of a chrome camera. Some purchasers may think that this looks really nice but, in the collector market, the alterations will have reduced the value of the camera.

 

Here is a photo of my black III from 1937 together with some lenses and accessories:

 

Black and Chrome Leica III set 1937 (1 of 1).jpg

 

William

 

Yours Leica III set looks wonderful.

This is my first contact to screw mount and historical Leicas.  This discussion has been a very good introduction to collecting old Leicas.

[luigi bertolotti]

Yes, original... the bottom speaks clearly...  Personally, if I had it, would keep it as is because it's simply funny and someway tasty even if "borderline"...  ; but if you like to have an original III , a good restoration can be Worth, for the body... the Elmar is so nice with all that colors that I'd keep it as is... given also that anyway it does not match, in age, with the camera (Elmars of 1939 were marked "5cm", not "50mm" ... btw... can you find a s/n on it ?)

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[toanna]

In fact there is an other screw mount Leica, I think it is Leica IIIc from 1950. First I thought it is in bad shape, but now I like ask from you what should I do with it?

Here are a few pictures (Should this be a new topic?)

 

 

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