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For four years I have waited for this day which has not come


M28

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I upgraded from M9 to M240.  I do not find the IQ or ISO noise that much improved.  I do not see any improvement in clarity or accuracy or reliability of the rangefinder.  I learned to live without the frameline lever.  I detest the LED-lit frame line display.  I have never used the video mode or Live View on the LCD, and only rarely the EVF (although I have come to appreciate not having to lug a Visoflex when traveling).  I find that although it's not really bigger or much heavier than the M9, the little thumb wheel on the rear of the top plate changed my grip hand position enough that the camera feels much thicker and heavier. 

 

All that said, not having that assinine whirr after every shot was worth the entire price of admission.  Finally on the 3rd try Leica got a digital M to be as quiet as an entry-level consumer-grade Canikon DSLR and almost as quiet as a film M.   At this point Leica would really need to wow me to get me to upgrade further.  And any hybrid electronic tinkering with the rangefinder would cement my insistence on remaining at the M240. 

Highlight mine.

 

I do find improvement in high ISO. I can shoot confidently at 3200 and get very usable picture (unless I am lifting shadows heavily, which reveals banding) and lovely colors. With M9, my upper limit was 640 for good pic quality. ISO 800 was kind of stretching and 1000+ was simply not ok (specially for color). My experience mirrors what reviewers noted, which is improvement of 1.5 to 2 stop of noise ceiling. This much improvement made my 28cron usable in nigh time living room shots.

 

However in daylight there is no advantage. In bright light, M9's IQ is same as M240's or if you are part of CCD worshiper crowd then M9 is marginally better. :)

Edited by jmahto
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I upgraded from M9 to M240.  I do not find the IQ or ISO noise that much improved.  I do not see any improvement in clarity or accuracy or reliability of the rangefinder.  I learned to live without the frameline lever.  I detest the LED-lit frame line display.  I have never used the video mode or Live View on the LCD, and only rarely the EVF (although I have come to appreciate not having to lug a Visoflex when traveling).  I find that although it's not really bigger or much heavier than the M9, the little thumb wheel on the rear of the top plate changed my grip hand position enough that the camera feels much thicker and heavier. 

 

All that said, not having that assinine whirr after every shot was worth the entire price of admission.  Finally on the 3rd try Leica got a digital M to be as quiet as an entry-level consumer-grade Canikon DSLR and almost as quiet as a film M.   At this point Leica would really need to wow me to get me to upgrade further.  And any hybrid electronic tinkering with the rangefinder would cement my insistence on remaining at the M240. 

How different people are. After using the 240 from the beginning I increasingly find the view/rangefinder improvement the main thing that puts it ahead of the other M cameras.

That you see not much difference  in IQ or noise is not surprising, given that you prefer JPG output. Should you use the camera to its full potential, the difference would be clear, especially on the noise front.

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How different people are. After using the 240 from the beginning I increasingly find the view/rangefinder improvement the main thing that puts it ahead of the other M cameras.

That you see not much difference  in IQ or noise is not surprising, given that you prefer JPG output. Should you use the camera to its full potential, the difference would be clear, especially on the noise front.

The M9 new in Australia cost $7500 and then just before the M240 got released price dropped to $5500.

 

The M240 in Australia cost $10500 and 4 years on cost $8500

 

The range finder on the M240 was much improved I concur.

 

The M9 I loved but always found that in a dark restaurant shooting with my 35mm at f1.4 summilux I had to really concentrate to get the focus on children's eyes. Yes difficult lens under those conditions. Narrow focus depth field. Yes. The difference on the m240 would have been marginal.

 

Thus my requirement for the M240 to be significantly greater.

 

Look don't misunderstand me. I want to buy finally my one Leica for life and anyway I don't even have the money for it right now.

However I took it humbly when the M240 was announced and there are many posts where I certainly stated it was a brilliant camera. I might even buy one second hand and use it with much happiness.

 

Waiting 4 years for the M240 to drop in price has been a long time thus the disappointment, but not grief.

The way that camera has held its value on the second hand market is absolutely phenomenal.

There was much humour in my post which perhaps my northern Leica buddies did not pick up.

 

The M9 or M240 which one sold better? I suspect the M9 but am I correct I don't know. The M9 put Leica back on the map. Without the M9 Leica would have never been able to achieve the greatness it has and put itself squarely in no 1 place for cameras. The SL is just unbelievably good and if it was smaller and less heavy I would take the leap just for that EVF with Leica m lenses.

 

My plan was to buy a used m240 till the next iteration presented itself on the used market.

 

Let's hope they announce something.

 

Until then where are the sofort pics ?

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Well, actually it was the M8 that saved the company. In numbers? I think the M240 has overtaken the M9, especially with the 262 and M-D pitching in, but nobody knows as Leica does not release production numbers.

I thought the M8 sold far less numbers. I remember a figure in excess of 300000 sold for the M9. It would be wonderful for me if the M240 sold more than the M9. Again testament to how good the camera actually is.

 

But looked at from my perspective. I bought a slightly used m9 for $5200 aud. Then I sold it 3 years later for $4200.

I still have never seen a reasonable lightly used m240 for less than $6500 in Australia in 4 years!

 

I think Leica realised the Aussies only hobby is buying investment housing and watching footy, rugby and cricket and watching tv so ramped the price right up knowing that there is a select small market of buyers who will pay for it anyway. Besides photography with a range finder is too hard for many here and too strange. iPhone is much easier.

Edited by M28
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300.000 is highly unlikely. Leica's production capacity was aan estimated 30.000 a year at the time and the camera was in production for three years. The M8 was produced in similar numbers according to most estimates. It saved the company. In 2006 they were technically bankrupt. Only a financial injection by Dr.Kaufmann, the success of the M8 and the discontinuation of the R system turned the company around

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300.000 is highly unlikely. Leica's production capacity was aan estimated 30.000 a year at the time and the camera was in production for three years. The M8 was produced in similar numbers according to most estimates. It saved the company. In 2006 they were technically bankrupt. Only a financial injection by Dr.Kaufmann, the success of the M8 and the discontinuation of the R system turned the company around

It's amazing what intelligence can achieve. In the end analysis it's the sheer force of all the intelligence mustered that turned the companies fortunes around. It's a similar story at Tesla and Space X with Elon Musk.

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Standing on the bleeding edge of camera tech and aesthetics is where it's at.

 

The pinnacle of beauty and technology.

 

The camera design that I most admired was the special edition titanium m9

Forgot what it was called

 

Stunning design.

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I was delighted at the arrival of the M APO-Summicron 50mm f2. and waited for a much improved iso camera that was not the M240 with a big sensor full of megapixels so that I could see wall sized photographs using my projector.

Ah, those 50-megapixel projectors sure are nice.  :)

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.... Only a financial injection by Dr.Kaufmann, the success of the M8 and the discontinuation of the R system turned the company around

 

It's been that case with multiple companies that had too large of a portfolio. Going back to "das Wesentliche" so to say.  

 

I've been wondering for a couple of years now though, if Leica's multiple lines are really worth it though. 

 

We have the M  which is the essence of Leica .. the core ... the one Item that truly set's Leica apart from any other manufacturer today.

 

But we also have the T .. the S .. the Q .. the SL .. Sinar .. the X-Series .. Panasonic branded Leicas .. Cellphones and now even a Polaroid camera. 

 

This screams of very high R&D costs and split focus ...   Maybe I'm completely wrong and it actually is necessary to have such a wide array of products to stay relevant, but it just seems a bit much for a relatively small company.

 

Especially the whole rebranding of existing products is a bit worry some. 

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The release of the Sofort was ok with me. I've actually thought of buying one! I think my grown daughters would love me snapping shots of the grandkids and then seeing them  instantaneously. 

Yet I am waiting expectantly for the next M!

 

I pre-ordered one. I think it could be fun in some circumstances like selfies in travel places. I am sometimes fed up with so many electronic images, that I have to decided on the very best for a book or calendar amongst so many more great pictures. Sometimes an instant print would look good and I look forward to getting it.

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It seems to me that nothing major has been released by Leica at Photokina for several years. The two biggest releases recently of the Q and SL were not done at Photokina. Think about all of the publicity they received for both of those cameras by releasing them on their own and away from the hype of that show. It just seems as if things are "too" quiet right now and makes me think that something big is on the way...

 

Yes you are right and the SL is a beauty. Perhaps a little heavy and a little larger than I would want but it handles like a dream in and out of the studio.  The manual focus help even allows me to use M-lenses and get good results. That was a shock to realize after decades of cameras and AF this and AF that, that I don't need it. I can do MF - a revelation considering my glasses...... but the SL viewfinder also helps.

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actually I have been waiting 12 years

since placing a very early morning call to my Munich dealer,

requesting to be put on "the" list for a hypothetical digital M.

I am still using my M8s  as there was never any need to change.

... but now I preordered a 23/2.0

unfortunately the company that makes that lens starts with the

1st letter of the 

"F" - word ;-)

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With all due respect, the M line is done. There will over time be marginal advances to bring new buyers in but Leica likely believes there is nothing left to improve where the return on investment from their perspective is worthwhile. The SL is their new direction and it will eventually grow into a MF competitive platform and then the Q and T are the lesser cost alternatives. Professionals to be catered to are the SL and S users. Can't say I blame them. When you look at the M how much more aside from tweaking is there really left to do? I don't believe they have an interest in going to full frame 50mp sensors or a curved one or whatever. It is what it is and aside from the occasional refresh the focus of development is not the M

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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It's been that case with multiple companies that had too large of a portfolio. Going back to "das Wesentliche" so to say.  

 

I've been wondering for a couple of years now though, if Leica's multiple lines are really worth it though. 

 

We have the M  which is the essence of Leica .. the core ... the one Item that truly set's Leica apart from any other manufacturer today.

 

But we also have the T .. the S .. the Q .. the SL .. Sinar .. the X-Series .. Panasonic branded Leicas .. Cellphones and now even a Polaroid camera. 

 

This screams of very high R&D costs and split focus ...   Maybe I'm completely wrong and it actually is necessary to have such a wide array of products to stay relevant, but it just seems a bit much for a relatively small company.

 

Especially the whole rebranding of existing products is a bit worry some. 

The Q is mainly Panasonic development, the Panaleicas Panasonic, X-series long since amortized, Cellphones not developed by Leica, Sinar a separate company the Sofort 98% Fuji...- Actually Leica is being very money-smart in the R&D department.

I bet that the M series is getting all the attention it needs.

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With all due respect, the M line is done. There will over time be marginal advances to bring new buyers in but Leica likely believes there is nothing left to improve where the return on investment from their perspective is worthwhile. The SL is their new direction and it will eventually grow into a MF competitive platform and then the Q and T are the lesser cost alternatives. Professionals to be catered to are the SL and S users. Can't say I blame them. When you look at the M how much more aside from tweaking is there really left to do? I don't believe they have an interest in going to full frame 50mp sensors or a curved one or whatever. It is what it is and aside from the occasional refresh the focus of development is not the M

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is what they thought in 1970, in the 1990ies, and obviously now -  sit and be surprised ;)

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