Not as happy with the 35mm as I thought I would be....Suggestions?

[earleygallery]

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I don't see any 'problems' with the photos from your 35. As others have said you're comparing an older lens with much newer designs.

[menos I M6]

John, it might turn out for you to illustrate what you find wrong with your 35/2 v3 to the bigger community on this forum.

It seems not to be a lens isolated problem per se but simply that your 35/2 v3 lens stands out a little awkwardly from the other lenses you have and seem to like better.

 

Your solution simply is to try different 35mm lenses to the one you have now (looking at your other lenses, you should preferably try more modern ones).

 

A 35/2 v4 might be an option but it most likely will not make for a substantial difference.

A 35/2 ASPH surely will fit much more nicely within the other lenses you use from an image character point of view.

 

With your selection of lenses I would sell the 35/2 v3 and buy either a 35 Summicron ASPH or a 35 Summilux ASPH - both these lenses will fit much better with you other lenses.

With the Summilux ASPH you choice are for the older non FLE version which will show a more pronounced focus shift than the current FLE version but in return does draw much, much nicer backgrounds.

With film and the older generation Leica digitals I never found an issue with the focus shift - with the newer higher resolving digitals and when obsessing about perfect focus, the newer FLE version might be a better choice.

 

Other options are a plenty - there are very nice Japanese Cosina Zeiss lenses, vintage lenses of all makes and also more modern Japanese lenses.

Personally I am very, very happy with a 35/2 Konica Hexanon-UC, which is my favorite 35mm (I also have a few other vintage and modern 35mm lenses I like but the little Konica always seems to trump them).

 

Lens choices are very, very personal on an individual lens base and difficult when trying to mix up a coherent look among a kit of lenses.

This is likely the reason of the comments that some people don't see a problem with the photographs you posted from your 35mm - it's not a problem with that lens, it simply is that this one sticks out in your lens kit to your personal taste.

 

A few different 35mm lenses:

 

35 Summicron v1:

portrait - construction worker by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

35 Summilux v2:

portrait - little chick by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

35 Summilux ASPH:

bandana girl by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

35 f1.2 v1 Cosina Voigtländer:

rainy shanghai | portrait - during a rain by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

35 f2 Canon LTM:

Untitled by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

35 f1.8 W-Nikkor LTM:

look at me man by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

35 f2 Konica UC-Hexanon LTM:

bystander - smoke by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

Your best bet to try out a few different lenses may just be a trip to the next Leica dealer to take some sample photos with Leica lenses and to get in touch with some fellow Australiens around your area who have one or the other lens you might want to try.

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[JohnBrawley]

 

Lens choices are very, very personal on an individual lens base and difficult when trying to mix up a coherent look among a kit of lenses.

This is likely the reason of the comments that some people don't see a problem with the photographs you posted from your 35mm - it's not a problem with that lens, it simply is that this one sticks out in your lens kit to your personal taste.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dirk for the really thoughtful reply and I think you've understood what I wasn't able to articulate.

 

I really like the look of your 35mm ASPH lens, it speaks the most to me.

 

I doubt I will sell this V3 lens, I can't bring myself to sell any lenses so no doubt I'll be just buying another.  Can you elaborate what you mean about the "focus shift"  It sounds like you're inferring something to do with focus accuracy ?  So far I haven't worried to much about the Summilux lenses because the extra stop seems to mean a larger lens (physically) and I've not felt the need for the extra stop, however, looks say something differently to me.

 

I really love the personality of older lenses, and I've written up many posts about them on some of the motion work I do.  They are more esoteric cinema lenses, but you get the idea, we're concerned about the same kinds of image flaws and imperfections and look.  

 

Zeiss and Panavision both made some really nice lenses in the 70's and 80's.  I believe most of Panavision's optics were supplied by Leitz Alcan to Panavision's design.

 

Here are some blog posts about some testing and some rather eye wateringly boring (for some) lens tests with clips at the bottom of each post.  I test the lenses extensively or focus breathing, flares, CA and geometry.

 

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2015/07/24/lensing-about/

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/vintage-lenses-2/

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/vintage-lenses/

 

Leica have recently started making their own cinema lenses and I've had the chance to shoot them a few times. They're lovely of course, but I still generally prefer the older lenses.

 

Thanks again Dirk.

 

jb

[4X5B&W]

Hi John, I'm a fellow Australian currently living in Canada.

I will be in Sydney starting March 3rd. and will have my favourite 35 with me.

 

It may be just the look you're after, modern yet classic.....I love it!

This combination describes the 35 Summilux ASPH (pre-FLE).

 

If you're still looking for the right lens come March let me know.....we can meet and you can check out my 35 Lux ASPH seen here on my Monochrom:

 

 

David K.

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[jaapv]

Focus shift is the optical effect that the plane of focus shifts as the lens is stopped down. On a rangefinder camera (and on an SLR with automatic aperture) this is a problem as the plane of focus will not coincide with the plane you focused on at certain apertures. The effect is more visible on digital images than on film ones.

The original Summilux 35 asph was particularly prone to this problem, only focusing correctly at one aperture, so Leica introduced the Summilux 35 asph FLE, which goes a long way towards solving the issue.

[menos I M6]

Thanks Dirk for the really thoughtful reply and I think you've understood what I wasn't able to articulate.

 

I really like the look of your 35mm ASPH lens, it speaks the most to me.

 

I doubt I will sell this V3 lens, I can't bring myself to sell any lenses so no doubt I'll be just buying another.  Can you elaborate what you mean about the "focus shift"  It sounds like you're inferring something to do with focus accuracy ?  So far I haven't worried to much about the Summilux lenses because the extra stop seems to mean a larger lens (physically) and I've not felt the need for the extra stop, however, looks say something differently to me.

 

I really love the personality of older lenses, and I've written up many posts about them on some of the motion work I do.  They are more esoteric cinema lenses, but you get the idea, we're concerned about the same kinds of image flaws and imperfections and look.  

 

Zeiss and Panavision both made some really nice lenses in the 70's and 80's.  I believe most of Panavision's optics were supplied by Leitz Alcan to Panavision's design.

 

Here are some blog posts about some testing and some rather eye wateringly boring (for some) lens tests with clips at the bottom of each post.  I test the lenses extensively or focus breathing, flares, CA and geometry.

 

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2015/07/24/lensing-about/

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/vintage-lenses-2/

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/vintage-lenses/

 

Leica have recently started making their own cinema lenses and I've had the chance to shoot them a few times. They're lovely of course, but I still generally prefer the older lenses.

 

Thanks again Dirk.

 

jb

 

Hey John, see the details in Jaap's post.

He sums up the effect of focus shift nicely.

 

With the 35 f1.4 Summilux ASPH (my preferred fast Leica 35mm, even to the newer FLE version) the effect can hardly be seen on film cameras or even the older generation Leica digital M bodies if the lens is adjusted properly.

Unfortunately with newer models as the M240 generation based bodies the ever higher resolution of these sensors will make the focus shift issue more and more visible (if shooting for big enlargements that is).

 

For years I have used mine on film and the M8/9 generation cameras and was most happy - I don't like it much on the newer bodies as it drives me mad.

There is not much one can do about it, as it is the limitation of the optical design of this very lens.

 

The 35 f2 Summicron ASPH (1st and current generation) does not suffer from this issue - you can safely look into one of these, save money, weight, bulk and have a great lens to use on any medium, be it film or even the latest digital.

 

Please be aware that Leica constantly improves their lenses in all respects (sometimes even through the same model production life in some applicable aspects), so generally the newer model you buy, the better optical performance you get.

Also be aware that Leica (as most other manufacturers) does change their design philosophy about lenses quite a bit (often big enough to see major differences in image rendering between generations of lenses).

What were high resolution (center), low contrast lenses in the 50's became more uniform resolution medium contrast lenses in the 60's, even higher contrast lenses (some at cost of actual resolution in certain image areas) in the early 70's, became more "rounded" harmonious imaging devices in the 70's and 80's (heard of Walter Mandler ?), higher contrast and sharper lenses in the 90's and SUPER sharp and extremely high contrast lenses in the 2K's (Peter Karbe designs).

The distinct differences do not stop at the imaging character but do also show big differences in how the mechanical design of the lenses is accomplished.

During one era, Leica lenses were literally built like tanks, surviving easily generations of photographers, other eras have born exotic, quirky lenses, others again lenses trimmed to extreme lightweight and compact designs.

More lately Leica has moved more and more into the focus of producing luxurious goods, resulting in beautiful industrial design and utmost attention to external appearances of their products (see the current design of lens hoods and their integration), change in mechanical design, materials and even the lubrication of focussing helicoids show distinct differences in haptic and operation between different eras (ever wonder why certain designs have a buttery, silky smooth and light focus feel, while others seem almost too stiff to move?)

 

(I am paraphrasing here)

 

Every generation of these lenses has a distinct certain look - one can mix and match to personal taste but generally lenses from a single era tend to look more coherent when mixed with lenses from the same era, made under the same design goals.

 

I am a huge fan of vintage lenses (not much a fan of what Leica does lately with their very main goal looking exclusively to be optical perfection at the cost of a more harmonious, pleasing image).

Good luck we have this immense pool of lenses produced over the last century which can all be used even with the latest and greatest Leica digitals ;-)

 

Good luck with your findings - oh and you definitely want to look into the several "vintage lenses threads" here on LUF - for example:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/186858-the-view-through-older-glass/

 

I am closing with a few shots from my 35 f1.4 Summilux ASPH - a lens I do love despite it's flaws:

 

Untitled by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

portrait - boy with straw hat by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

portrait - old man by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

tattoo by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

supper by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

Untitled by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

 

couple holding hands by Dirk Steffen, on Flickr

[michael.mu]

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John,

 

You might prefer the 35mm Summicron-asph.  I bought one last year and love it.  At the time my most used lens was a 1962 50mm Summilux; now it's probably the 35mm.  I find it helpful to view pictures made with the lens of interest on Flickr. The 35mm Summicron-asph while having a more modern look is a 20 year old design already.  It came out in 1996.

Here are a couple more examples of the 35mm Summicron-asph taken with an open aperture (maybe f2.0 ?) with the M240

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelmu/27205619771/in/album-72157653795259460/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelmu/26576556034/in/album-72157653795259460/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelmu/28040242843/in/album-72157653795259460/

 

 

 

Mike

Edited September 23, 2016 by michael.mu

[JohnBrawley]

Just to follow up on this, I did end up getting the current 35mm summilux 1.4 and have been very happy with the results.

 

The 35mm F2 V3 cron I have can stay with the film cameras. I also bought a new MP :-)

 

Here's some recent 35 lux shots.

 

https://flic.kr/p/Tsccwo

https://flic.kr/p/TCqKz9

https://flic.kr/p/Ss9qdF

https://flic.kr/p/TG3f2k

https://flic.kr/p/SsapUc

https://flic.kr/p/Tuyri6

https://flic.kr/p/Ts9k29

https://flic.kr/p/TsbZMG

https://flic.kr/p/TsbX7b

https://flic.kr/p/TuyFkV

https://flic.kr/p/Tuys44

 

Thanks all for the discussion.

 

JB

Edited May 20, 2017 by JohnBrawley

[Al_OOF]

In my experience with the 35/2 IV, which should be very similar to III, first with the M5, then with the M6 ​​and now with M9 and M10 I feel that its best performance is inevitably with the film and, especially in comparison with the more modern optics, with digital bodies it loses much of its value.

[NZDavid]

Nigh on impossible to evaluate each lens based on very different shots. Lighting is tricky in all your 35mm shots. I was also going to say 35 is great for environmental portraits (not too close), except Dirk's portraits with the 35, above, are excellent. 

 

 

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[reddot925]

The look of your summicron V3 reminds me of the same generation summilux V2 which gives cooler tone and more saturated images than later summiluxes, the look which I'm personally ok with but also not for all circumstances.

 

I would imagine from your other lens that the later versions will probably suit your taste more.

Edited May 21, 2017 by reddot925

[TRIago]

Is it possible that you don't like 35mm lenses in general? I ask because I just did let go my 35mm cron asph. It was an amazingly sharp lens and I have owned it for quite a few years. But the day I've got my 50mm cron (rigid) I was sold. So last Saturday I did trade my 35 cron asph for a 50mm Cron V and I couldn't be happier.

 

So perhaps your problem is the FL instead of the lens itself? Just wondering. Cheers.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Herr Barnack]

I don't see any 'problems' with the photos from your 35. As others have said you're comparing an older lens with much newer designs.

 

I would have to agree with earlreygallery; I do not see any real technical problems with the first set of 35mm images that you posted.  If you are comparing an older 35mm lens to a newer version of the same lens, toy will see a difference.  If I had to guess, I think that is what you are seeing - the difference in rendering between an older lens and a newer lens. 

 

There is nothing "wrong" with your s/n #2741016 35mm lens - it just renders differently from newer 35mm lenses.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Carlos Danger

[otto.f]

I would have to agree with earlreygallery; I do not see any real technical problems with the first set of 35mm images that you posted.  If you are comparing an older 35mm lens to a newer version of the same lens, toy will see a difference.  If I had to guess, I think that is what you are seeing - the difference in rendering between an older lens and a newer lens. 

 

There is nothing "wrong" with your s/n #2741016 35mm lens - it just renders differently from newer 35mm lenses.

I agree with earlygallery and Carlos. Perhaps you are indeed more into modern Leica lenses. I must say your portrait with the 50APO where you can look into the pores of the woman is not very attractive to me. But you could benefit from an upgrade to the Summicron 35 mk4. The Summilux 35 FLE could be an option but it won't be give you that micro-contrast that you seem to look for, given the examples that you show. The new Summicron 28 asph seems more your style