Elmar-m vs Summicron vs Summarit 50mm

[marco_p]

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Hi everybody,

This is my first post on the forum so be patient with me. 

I finally have the opportunity to buy a leica M4 and one lens, and I think I'm gonna go with a 50mm. The question is: which one should I choose as my only lens?

I'm devided between the Summicron-m (retractable lens hood), the Summarit 2.4 or the elmar-m (latest version). I like the size of the elmar, but I read that with the lens hood the size difference with the other two is greatly reduced, while with the summicron I would gain one full stop of light. As far as price goes, I can buy the Summicron or the Summarit for the same price (1000€), while the Elmar would cost slightly less (670€). All three lenses are in great shape and come with hoods.

Since I couldn't find any direct comparison between the three, I'd like to know if anyone have experience with all three and what are your suggestions.

I will shoot mostly B&W, but also color negative film. I'm going to do travel, street photography and some occasional portraiture.

Thank you very much for your help! (And sorry for the bad english )

Bye.

Marco

[honcho]

Hi everybody,

This is my first post on the forum so be patient with me. 

I finally have the opportunity to buy a leica M4 and one lens, and I think I'm gonna go with a 50mm. The question is: which one should I choose as my only lens?

I'm devided between the Summicron-m (retractable lens hood), the Summarit 2.4 or the elmar-m (latest version). I like the size of the elmar, but I read that with the lens hood the size difference with the other two is greatly reduced, while with the summicron I would gain one full stop of light. As far as price goes, I can buy the Summicron or the Summarit for the same price (1000€), while the Elmar would cost slightly less (670€). All three lenses are in great shape and come with hoods.

Since I couldn't find any direct comparison between the three, I'd like to know if anyone have experience with all three and what are your suggestions.

I will shoot mostly B&W, but also color negative film. I'm going to do travel, street photography and some occasional portraiture.

Thank you very much for your help! (And sorry for the bad english )

Bye.

Marco

 

You would probably be very happy with any of them.  Comparisons are really down to personal preferences and ergonomics such as lens hoods being in the way of filters on the elmar-m and summarit, unless the usual endless rubbish about mtf graphs, micro contrast, flare, vignetting, drawing, rendering, blah, blah, ad nauseam means anything to you.

 

I like the 50mm elmar-m because it's an elmar, which makes it a bit different.  It was discontinued a few years ago but good examples are still easily had for reasonable Leica currency and it's the fastest focusing manual lens I've ever used on a rangefinder.  A silver version would go very nicely with your M4, assuming that's not black!

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[marco_p]

Thank you very much Honcho for your reply!

My M4 is in fact silver and so is the Elmar!

Can I ask you in which way the Elmar is the fastest focusing of the three? Is it because of the focus throw from closest distance to infinity?

Thank You!

[earleygallery]

As said they're all excellent.

 

The Elmar being retractable means you have something a little more compact when carrying about (especially if you remove the hood) and a useful saving. 

 

However, ignoring price and any difference in condition etc., I'd probably go for the Summicron myself, just for the little extra speed.

[marco_p]

As said they're all excellent.

 

The Elmar being retractable means you have something a little more compact when carrying about (especially if you remove the hood) and a useful saving. 

 

However, ignoring price and any difference in condition etc., I'd probably go for the Summicron myself, just for the little extra speed.

Thank you!

Is there a big difference in terms of bokeh between the summicron at f2 and the elmar at 2.8?

I'm tempted by the summicron too because of the f2 aperture, but I still like the portability of the Elmar. (plus it looks cool too!)

[honcho]

Thank you very much Honcho for your reply!

My M4 is in fact silver and so is the Elmar!

Can I ask you in which way the Elmar is the fastest focusing of the three? Is it because of the focus throw from closest distance to infinity?

Thank You!

 

Yes, the focus throw has more snap than a jack russell.

[marco_p]

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Yes, the focus throw has more snap than a jack russell.

I see 

[dpitt]

As said, you would be pleased with any of the three lenses, but there are more options.

 

Thank you!

Is there a big difference in terms of bokeh between the summicron at f2 and the elmar at 2.8?

I'm tempted by the summicron too because of the f2 aperture, but I still like the portability of the Elmar. (plus it looks cool too!)

You could combine the two, if you go for the old first Summicron 50. It is collapsible and weighs only what the Elmar weighs. Price including CLA is 60=70% of your Elmar. I really like this lens on digital bodies. It would be great with high contrast film, and the bokeh is more pleasing to me. Not that I find the Elmar bad, but the Summicron has that extra something...

 

The Summarit 2.4 is the most modern design, but I prefer the first Summicron in comparison. It is softer but renders prettier to my eyes...

Edited September 15, 2016 by dpitt

[spydrxx]

I've only owned two of the 3 you mention, not the Summarit. I think any of the three would be great lenses to start out with. I loved the sharpness and contrast of the Elmar, but my copy wouldn't stay retracted when I was hiking. OTOH that's not an issue with the Summicron, which also is a terrific lens in terms of sharpness and contrast. I'm guessing that over time it will probably hold its value better than the Elmar for a variety of reasons. On the issue of bokeh....I sincerely doubt that any of the three are stellar, but IMHO it is irrelevant...most people couldn't care less, and most people who wax eloquently don't know what they are talking about anyway. Just get the lens you want, take pictures and have a great time.

[TomB_tx]

You can't go wrong with any of them. Notice that Leica got away from collapsible lenses over time, indicating most users found the rigid versions more convenient, and as Erwin Puts noted in his analysis, a collapsing design is harder to assure alignment. He noted the old 2.8 Elmar was prototyped with a rigid body, which gave better performance, but marketing wanted the collapsible.

I have a recent production Summicron, the f2.5 Summarit, and a couple of the old 2.8 Elmar (which are different enough the image quality doesn't compare).

I find the Summicron and Summarit images equal for my work, but I prefer the size and handling of the Summarit, so it is my normal lens (along with a 35 Summarit). The old Elmar is sentimental (the first Leica lens I used 50 years ago), but the collapsing can be inconvenient - one more thing to check for that can make you miss a shot.

I think when most people get something other than a Summicron, they eventually end up getting one later!

Edited September 15, 2016 by TomB_tx

[R6M6]

I have an old Summitar 50, a Summicron 50 (IV) and the new Elmar-M 50.

Summicron is imho the best, Summitar gives very good colours and the Elmar is very fast focusing and makes a lot of fun for snapshots. Not discussing my old Summar

[marco_p]

Thanks everybody for the great inputs! I hope to try out at least the Elmar and the Summicron soon. As I understand it mostly depends on the feeling I'll get.

[gvaliquette]

I am vacationing in Poland now.  I have used the Elmar-M f2.8 50mm A LOT!!!  I also have the C-Sonnar f1.5 50mm in my bag, for it's f1.5 aperture, if and when needed, but it has essentially stayed in the bag!  The Summicron 50mm f2.0 stayed back at home.  The Elmar-M 50mm f2.8 and the Summilux 35mm f1.4 ASPH-FLE are my most used lenses.

 

Unfortunately, I will have to go back home to the NYC area on Sunday.  Such is life.

 

Guy

[james.liam]

Shooting film, the extra speed the Summicron provides may make all the difference. The Summarit renders much like the Summicron and for film, you're not really getting much or saving much over the Summicron, just losing a 1/2 stop of light. The Elmar is a nifty little lens but one stop of light is, after all, one stop of light.

[michaelwj]

Shooting film, the extra speed the Summicron provides may make all the difference. The Summarit renders much like the Summicron and for film, you're not really getting much or saving much over the Summicron, just losing a 1/2 stop of light. The Elmar is a nifty little lens but one stop of light is, after all, one stop of light.

What James said.

A stop of light is the difference between blur at 1/15th and the chance of a good shot at 1/30th. Indoors with ISO 400 film, you'll need that stop.

Michael

[tobey bilek]

What James said.

A stop of light is the difference between blur at 1/15th and the chance of a good shot at 1/30th. Indoors with ISO 400 film, you'll need that stop.

Michael

 

Tripod, higher iso.

 

Love my 2.8 last version.  I use my 50 ASPH for bokeh or speed.   I have a hard time telling them apart at 2.8.

[lct]

Another 50/2.8 lover here but i preferred my 50/2 v3 & v4 with film due to the wider aperture. I guess i would redo it now as i don't like color films above 200 asa.

[michaelwj]

Tripod, higher iso.

 

Love my 2.8 last version. I use my 50 ASPH for bokeh or speed. I have a hard time telling them apart at 2.8.

Tripod doesn't stop the other person moving, and with an M4 I'm guessing the OP will be using film, so ISO is kind of locked down to an extent.

I use a lens wide open more often than not because I need to keep my shutter speed high.

[Peter H]

Tripod doesn't stop the other person moving, and with an M4 I'm guessing the OP will be using film, so ISO is kind of locked down to an extent.

I use a lens wide open more often than not because I need to keep my shutter speed high.

 

 

Quite so.

 

Also, tripod and higher iso can be used with all lenses, the 1-stop advantage doesn't disappear.

 

For film in particular, I'd go for the Summicron, but I do agree that the most important thing is probably how they feel to the person using them. 

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[S/W]

I have the Summicron 2.0/50 (latest Version) und the "old" Summarit 2.5/50 and in my opinion ist the Summarit "the best bang for your bucks". It is light-weight and sharp, good for travel and street!