earleygallery Posted September 25, 2016 Share #101 Posted September 25, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Either that or Leica is now in fact rebadging somebody else's lens and that would be the end of Leica for me. You obviously don't know about various R lenses which were actually Minolta designs, or the Sigma R lens? The lens on the Digilux 1 could also be found on an Olympus and Canon as well as the Panasonic. I very much doubt each manufacturer was coincidentally coming up with the same lens. We're talking about a 'novelty' camera here. If the lens on the Fuji is good enough what does it matter? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 25, 2016 Posted September 25, 2016 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here The real news about the Leica Sofort! [merged thread]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Lucklik Posted September 25, 2016 Share #102 Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) Well, if you care to check the specs: Fuji Instax: "Instax Lens" 60mm, f12.7 Leica: "Automatik-Hektor" 60mm, f12.7 They do have the same specs, agreed. However, Leica specifically calls the Sofort lens "Hektor" and I am the "glass is half full" kind of guy - therefore I am assuming it's a different lens - even if there has only been some very minor change (e.g. a different element) Either that or Leica is now in fact rebadging somebody else's lens and that would be the end of Leica for me. With the Panaleicas we know that Panasonic is using Leica designed lenses. The rebadged Leica versions use the same (Leica designed) lens. The Sofort either uses a Leica version of the 60/12.7 or Leica rebadged a Fuji lens. According to Fuji the Instax film has a resolving power of 12 lines/mm. https://www.fujifilm.eu/fileadmin/product_migration/generic/files/files/instax_mini_datasheet_14.pdf Not really high specs for a lens. I'm sure the lenses are the same. As a Instax 7s owner I wanted a better camera. I like both Fuji and Leica and apart from the look they are almost the same. I hesitated between the two and finally went for the Fuji because he has two shutter buttons and the Leica has only one shutterbutton. grt Luc Edited September 25, 2016 by Lucklik Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share #103 Posted September 25, 2016 12 lp/mm seems to me to be more than ample for an instant film. I doubt whether many will get that on a conventional chemical print. Even if the lens would only resolve, say, 20 lp/mm, which would be pretty grotty, it would still out resolve the film. A direct process is far more robust than one that has to run through a number of steps and limiting factors. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted September 25, 2016 Share #104 Posted September 25, 2016 Good info, Luc. Anyone seen this yet? David Farkas and Stephan Daniel talking about the Sofort: http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2016/09/photokina-2016-the-leica-sofort/ I'm afraid there's not much new info there, missed chance. What I'd like to know: Is the hardware in any way (exept for design) different from the Fuji? Did Leica ask for a special recepy or add a secret sauce to the paper? I must say I really like the packaging of the Leica paper, the Fuji paper package is so ugly in comparison, though probably much cheaper. It reminded me of difference between that new Fuji MF mirrorless versus the Hasselblad X1D. Man, I'm in love with the design of that camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share #105 Posted September 25, 2016 Yes. The camera and film are dusted with fermented dandruff from the beards of the Wetzlar Gnomes before being sealed for delivery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted September 25, 2016 Share #106 Posted September 25, 2016 See, I knew there was something special about it :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie.lcf Posted September 26, 2016 Share #107 Posted September 26, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) You obviously don't know about various R lenses which were actually Minolta designs, or the Sigma R lens? Those are lenses each of us would like to forget - at least those of us who actually owned one including myself. I thought, we were over this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie.lcf Posted September 26, 2016 Share #108 Posted September 26, 2016 FWIW https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/20/leica-sofort-instax-camera-hands-on/ Quote: The lens, according to the representative I spoke to, is Leica made, and fixed at 60mm "Leica made" doesn't *actually* add a lot to our discussion, but it tells us what Leica is communicating to the public on the Automatik-Hektor Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 26, 2016 Share #109 Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) 12 lp/mm seems to me to be more than ample for an instant film. I doubt whether many will get that on a conventional chemical print. Even if the lens would only resolve, say, 20 lp/mm, which would be pretty grotty, it would still out resolve the film. A direct process is far more robust than one that has to run through a number of steps and limiting factors. My experience compels me to intervene. First, I challenge 12 lp/mm for instant prints. What is the source of authority, and regardless it is pathetic. Instant prints from day-one to today suck, are fuzzy, unacceptable. Impressionist at best. Edited September 26, 2016 by pico Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 26, 2016 Share #110 Posted September 26, 2016 12 lp/mm seems to me to be more than ample for an instant film. 12 Lp/mm corresponds to about 600 ppi. That should be more than sufficient for instax film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 27, 2016 Share #111 Posted September 27, 2016 12 Lp/mm corresponds to about 600 ppi. That should be more than sufficient for instax film. Of course. 600 ppi smeared across the image space has nothing to do with resolution. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 27, 2016 Share #112 Posted September 27, 2016 Of course. 600 ppi smeared across the image space has nothing to do with resolution. . I’m not quite sure what your point is. Increasing the resolution of the lens would make no difference whatsoever to the eventual image. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 27, 2016 Share #113 Posted September 27, 2016 I’m not quite sure what your point is. Increasing the resolution of the lens would make no difference whatsoever to the eventual image. Look at the prints. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucklik Posted September 27, 2016 Share #114 Posted September 27, 2016 12 lp/mm seems to me to be more than ample I'm not sure it are line-pairs, the spec sheet talks about lines not line pairs Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucklik Posted September 27, 2016 Share #115 Posted September 27, 2016 FWIW https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/20/leica-sofort-instax-camera-hands-on/ Quote: The lens, according to the representative I spoke to, is Leica made, and fixed at 60mm "Leica made" doesn't *actually* add a lot to our discussion, but it tells us what Leica is communicating to the public on the Automatik-Hektor From the Leica representative at Phtokina I understood (between the lines) that only the outside was Leica. It seems to make a difference who you talk to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted September 27, 2016 Share #116 Posted September 27, 2016 Indeed, and I think that by now we can all draw the conclusion that only the outside is Leica's. (which is fine by me, by the way) I mean, if it really was a Leica improved version of the Fuji 90, people like Mr. Daniel would have clearly stated this in the interview with Mr. Farkas, I suppose. That being said, I really like the design and everybody can make up their own mind whether it's worth the extra ~ €150. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 27, 2016 Share #117 Posted September 27, 2016 Not to mention if Leica really did produce a unique lens for this camera you should expect another digit in the price tag! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 27, 2016 Share #118 Posted September 27, 2016 I'm not sure it are line-pairs, the spec sheet talks about lines not line pairs Fuji generally means line pairs when they specify lines per mm. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 27, 2016 Share #119 Posted September 27, 2016 (edited) Fuji generally means line pairs when they specify lines per mm. Of course. How is even possible to count lines without intervening spaces? It boggles the mind. Edited September 27, 2016 by pico Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 27, 2016 Share #120 Posted September 27, 2016 Of course. How is even possible to count lines without intervening spaces? It boggles the mind. Pico, nobody buys an instant camera for the picture quality. Actually that's wrong, they do buy them for the picture quality, it's just a different type of quality to the type a person buying an M and APO Summicron is after! But equally valid. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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