M2 & Leicavit?

[pico]

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Not unusual for me to be uninformed.

 

I'm thinking of getting a rapid-wind or Leicavit for a couple M2 cameras and for the life of me I cannot understand how they would work. All my other Leicas take a motor wind or 'vit or rapidwind driven by a gear. I see no such gear in the M2.

 

Please inform this old man.

 

OH! What is an M2S?

 

[a.noctilux]

Hello,

 

M2 couple to Leicavit (for M2) by the prong of take-up spool side.

 

Leicavit for M2 is very scarce...

 

A more modern, if not rare "replacement" of Leicavit,

Tom Abrahamsson's Rapidwinder of this link exist for M2 :

http://rapidwinder.com/classic-and-m2-ixmoo-rapdiwinder

 

M2S ?

From Wiki, "M2":

 

In 1969 a limited run of M2s with the rapid loading system from the M4 were made available to the public, sold as the Leica M2-R. These cameras had been developed for the US military, and were effectively being sold as army surplus through Leica dealerships.

 

Regards,

 

Arnaud

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Pico,

 

An M2S is an M2 with a selftimer..

 

Early button rewind M2's did not have self timers.

 

Later, when Leitz started adding self timers sometimes, they listed these self timer models in the catalogs as "M2S" & the M2's without self timers as "M2X".

 

The respective "S" & "X" were not engraved on the cameras.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[a911s]

Leicavit MP does not fit M2R, since it uses the rapid load M4-type spool. The slotted M2 type is what is driven by the winder. 

 

The only factory original M4 that can use the Leicavit MP is the M4M and M4 Mot, since they have the slotted take up spool.

 

Tom Abrahamsson's rapidwinder for the M2/M4 Mot is even rarer than a Leicavit MP.

Edited September 11, 2016 by a911s

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Randy,

 

An M2S has a traditional M2 take up spool.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[pico]

The only factory original M4 that can use the Leicavit MP is the M4M and M4 Mot, since they have the slotted take up spool.

 

The M4-P as well, but I suppose it is not really an M4.

 

I can't envision how an M2 engages with a Leicavit or Rapidwinder. I should think the film is transported by the sprockets and the take-up spool just winds on the film with less power. Dunno.

[a.noctilux]

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The coupling is done by engaging the "T" of Leicavit inside the fix part where take-up spool is pushed in M2.

 

Some photos may help:

http://picclick.ca/WORKS-AMAZING-Leica-Leicavit-MP-Silver-Rapid-201652706978.html

[a911s]

The M4-P as well, but I suppose it is not really an M4.

 

I can't envision how an M2 engages with a Leicavit or Rapidwinder. I should think the film is transported by the sprockets and the take-up spool just winds on the film with less power. Dunno.

 

 

I suppose I should have said "original" Leicavit MP. The M4-2 and M4-P take the modern one.

Edited September 11, 2016 by a911s

[TomB_tx]

Yes, just like the Rapid winders for the earlier LTM models, pulling the Leicavit lever pulls a chain around a sprocket that engages and spins the shaft through the take up spool that turns the winding gears.

The practical problem with the Leicavit is that it requires your left had to be occupied with advancing the film, making it unavailable for focus. If you zone focus that's fine, but the normal RH thumb lever is more practical for most use.

Canon also had a rapid winder clone that was very well made for their early 1950s models. When Leica came out with the M3, Canon's response was to make their rapid winder baseplate permanent, modifying the body for back loading in the VT (T for Trigger advance), claiming this was faster than a thumb lever advance. Their first SLR (Canonflex) also used a baseplate trigger winder. It didn't take them long to switch to thumb-lever models, as photographers preferred to use the left hand for focus.

Edited September 11, 2016 by TomB_tx

[pico]

[... snip good stuff ...]  It didn't take them long to switch to thumb-lever models, as photographers preferred to use the left hand for focus.

 

When two hands were not enough, Leica introduced the mouth release. (I've made one for myself.)

 

BTW, I have either the later motor wind or an Abrhansson Rapidwinder on all my Ms except the M2 models.

[menos I M6]

When two hands were not enough, Leica introduced the mouth release. (I've made one for myself.)

 

BTW, I have either the later motor wind or an Abrhansson Rapidwinder on all my Ms except the M2 models.

 

Your two very best options to get a Leicavit / Rapidwinder for your Leica M2:

 

1) get a modern Leica M film body + modern Leicavit / Rapidwinder

The modern Leicavit and Rapidwinders are MUCH, MUCH lower cost than any vintage Leicavit MP + overhaul or one of the hen's teeth, impossible to find Tom Abrahamsson Rapidwinder M2 models.

A good condition M6 + Leicavit is actually much cheaper to buy than a vintage, non working Leicavit MP (go figure).

 

2) have your Leica M2 modified by Don Goldberg or Sherry Krauter to modern rapid loading + acceptation of modern Leicavit (installation of motor coupling)

This too will be much less costly than getting a vintage Leicavit MP and having it sorted so it will work reliably.

The issue with this is: your M2 will be massively modified - surely nice in terms of usage but diminishing in value, if it is a collectable (black paint) model.

 

Ask me how I know - I went down that very same route through my head, trying to figure how best to get a matching Leicavit to my black paint M2 - all possible options, retaining that M2 body are: hugely expensive.

By contrast my Leica M6 or MP with a modern Leicavit (these can be had for very little money nowadays) are beautifully reliable and work fantastic.

You can find modern Leicavit second hand often under 500 USD and M6 bodies or even MP bodies are a plenty as well.

The vintage Leicavit MP winders really became collectors items with beaten, non functioning samples way over 1000 USD and collectible, fully functioning samples often more then 2000 USD (I am not talking about rare black paint samples - apart from being unobtainable, they cost WAY MORE than that and often have the issue of being not quite kosher with repaints and Franken-units around for sale as well).

 

Think this through and good luck.

 

Btw - the vintage Leicavit MP does couple through the removable take-up-spool of the MP and M2, which have a prolonged take up spool axle which will mate with the Leicavit MP.

On later bodies that accept the Leica Motor, Leica did add a separate motor coupling which sits in the center bottom cover close to the take-up-spool. The mating drive plate of the motor or Leicavit is designed floating and is spring loaded, so it will mate nicely with the coupling in the body once the motor / Leicavit is attached to the body.

[a911s]

Yes, it's a quagmire. The original stuff is way cool but expensive. An M6 with a winder is perfect.

 

I'm lucky to have a Leica repanted M2 with Rapidwinder. 

 

 

 

Think this through and good luck.

[menos I M6]

Yes, it's a quagmire. The original stuff is way cool but expensive. An M6 with a winder is perfect.

 

I'm lucky to have a Leica repanted M2 with Rapidwinder. 

 

I envy you very much on that M2 Rapidwinder - enjoy! ;-)

[jc_braconi]

 

 

I'm lucky to have a Leica repanted M2 with Rapidwinder. 

 

Just a chrome one :

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[alan mcfall]

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A black paint M2 with black paint summicron (goggles for M3) and MP Leicavit.  Regards.

[chris_livsey]

Just catching up and for future completeness:

I have an M2 (silver) Tom Rapidwinder this is a sub-type which is IXMOO compatible.

 

Total production of M2 models was around 400 in total with around 40 in black and with the IXMOO fitting around 80 in the wild with a set limit on 100 with Tom holding the balance as the IXMOO version is his personal favourite.