luigi bertolotti Posted September 6, 2016 Share #1 Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I am tempted to acquire a fine R Bellows with an Elmar 100 onto (bellows only version) : I suppose, by logic, that any R to M adapter (22228, or newer, or 3rd party) does allow to mount it safe on M240 : do someone know if there is some "hidden" drawback in such a combination ? Is there some facility to preset/close the diaphragm of the Elmar 100 (cable, lever...) or is it simply a manual diaph lens ? Sorry for trivial questions, but I have no experience on R gear... Thanks in advance Edited September 6, 2016 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 6, 2016 Posted September 6, 2016 Hi luigi bertolotti, Take a look here R Bellows on M body : any issue ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gbealnz Posted September 6, 2016 Share #2 Posted September 6, 2016 Luigi. Sounds simple enough, and from a cursory Google the bellows seems to have provision for a double cable release. The PDF I found showed the release as being #16494. Without actually having a set in front of me, I'd be guessing but an educated guess, as most from the era were similar, double cable release, one segment tripping the lens first, then the other segment tripping the camera shutter. Good luck. Gary 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted September 6, 2016 Share #3 Posted September 6, 2016 Yes, the bellows R has a semi-automatic diaphragm control for the lens, with a tab to reopen the lens. Any normal cable release will close the lens, but I forget if there is a simple button to close it without a cable. I haven't used mine (or the 100) for over 30 years, but I'll try to dig it out today. I don't have a 240, but could try the 100 & bellows with R to M and M to A7 adapter! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted September 6, 2016 Share #4 Posted September 6, 2016 Luigi The Bellows-R is not the best of bellows unfortunately. I've owned a couple and both have had slight play in them and would not lock up solidly. Personally I use a 60mm Macro Elmarit with the Leica tubes 14134-1, 13134-2 and several 14135 middle sections, or 14158-1 and 14158-2 (cable release versions) with 14135 middle sections. These give a versatile and rigid system and could be used with the 100 macro lenses too. If you stack a number of 14135 tubes then some form of lens clamp to fit around them with a tripod socket would be useful (and something will no doubt fit). You will still need an R to M adapter (I use the 'T' version now but the older one will work fine) to fit an M on the back. Its also possible to fit a converter adapter to a male tube to convert to dSLR too (I have converted one to Canon) so the system is versatile. If you look around tubes can be bought very cheaply (I've boght sets for as little as £30 and centre tubes for under £10). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted September 6, 2016 Share #5 Posted September 6, 2016 I haven't set this up in many years: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I did use it with adapter and A7 with no issues. I had forgotten the manual diaphragm control on the bellows, and how nice it is. The bellows extension control (focus) is the knurled knob on the left. At the back of that knob is a smooth collar. Push the collar back and the lens opens, and push down the locking lever above it and it holds the lens open. Push the collar again and it releases to close the lens. The lens box still had the price marked: $183 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I did use it with adapter and A7 with no issues. I had forgotten the manual diaphragm control on the bellows, and how nice it is. The bellows extension control (focus) is the knurled knob on the left. At the back of that knob is a smooth collar. Push the collar back and the lens opens, and push down the locking lever above it and it holds the lens open. Push the collar again and it releases to close the lens. The lens box still had the price marked: $183 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/264227-r-bellows-on-m-body-any-issue/?do=findComment&comment=3107683'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Thanks, Tom ! so, reading your posts and giving a look to the picture in the wiki section, there are no less than 3 actuations for the diaphgram, right ? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Well... I'm a bit worried about the play that Paul wrote about... but well, the combo that I found has a good price (Elmar+bellows) and the lens looks very fine... in case, can find the way to mount the Elmar on my Bellows II for M, which is very solid... Edited September 6, 2016 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Well... I'm a bit worried about the play that Paul wrote about... but well, the combo that I found has a good price (Elmar+bellows) and the lens looks very fine... in case, can find the way to mount the Elmar on my Bellows II for M, which is very solid... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/264227-r-bellows-on-m-body-any-issue/?do=findComment&comment=3107926'>More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted September 6, 2016 Share #7 Posted September 6, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, the collar opens (and can release to close) the diaphragm, the lever locks it open, and the cable release closes. I never bothered with the cable - just operated with the collar, locking with the lever sometimes. It is easy to hold the collar in while focusing, so it isn't necessary to lock it open. The right-side knob moves all on the tripod mount to focus if you want the magnification held at one position on the left knob. The right knob has a secure locking lever. I can't detect any play in mine, but it has been lightly used since I bought it in 1969. I used it a fair amount for 2-3 years, then storage. I don't have a bellows M, but comparing to the other bellows units I have the R is sure nicer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted September 7, 2016 Share #8 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Yes, the collar opens (and can release to close) the diaphragm, the lever locks it open, and the cable release closes. I never bothered with the cable - just operated with the collar, locking with the lever sometimes. It is easy to hold the collar in while focusing, so it isn't necessary to lock it open. The right-side knob moves all on the tripod mount to focus if you want the magnification held at one position on the left knob. The right knob has a secure locking lever. I can't detect any play in mine, but it has been lightly used since I bought it in 1969. I used it a fair amount for 2-3 years, then storage. I don't have a bellows M, but comparing to the other bellows units I have the R is sure nicer. Thank you! I have this lens a few years now, but did not know about the lever to lock the lens in the open position. Using the collar is very comvenient, so I guess I never bothered looking for a locking mechanism. The collar makes this one of the easiest lenses to focus when mounted on an adapter. It can even be used handheld for a short while without an issue on my R8/DMR combination. I never had issues with play on the bellows. IMO this lens is one of those hidden/forgotten Leica gems with excellent IQ for the money. I do have the M bellows, and indeed, maybe the bellows mechanism feels e bit more sofisticated, but the focussing collar together with the indication of magnification on the R bellows will compensate largely for that. If you intend to use the M bellows, it makes more sense to buy the 100 Elmar R with focusing unit, or a 60 Macro Elmarit and then mount the M bellows first on your M 240, then M-R adapter on the bellows front end, and then the R lens. This would give you macro from about 1:1 to an equivalent of and extension tube of about 10 cm! Mmmm... need to try that sometime. The only problem is that I do not have an M with preview possibility. But mounted with the Leicaflex III on my M9 this could give interesting results Edited September 7, 2016 by dpitt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted September 7, 2016 Share #9 Posted September 7, 2016 ...If you intend to use the M bellows, it makes more sense to buy the 100 Elmar R with focusing unit, or a 60 Macro Elmarit and then mount the M bellows first on your M 240, then M-R adapter on the bellows front end, and then the R lens. This would give you macro from about 1:1 to an equivalent of and extension tube of about 10 cm! Mmmm... need to try that sometime. The only problem is that I do not have an M with preview possibility. But mounted with the Leicaflex III on my M9 this could give interesting results Took the time to play a bit with the adapter and mounting rings I have with my M bellows. Unfortunately the possibility to mount a M lens with the bajonet directly on the front of the M bellows is not provided as a standard adaption ring. All rings require some sort of lens head or the lenses designed for the M bellows. I do not know if Leica sols an adapter for the M mount, but it was not a standard option for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted September 7, 2016 Share #10 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) I have two of the Focusing Bellows-R units, and one Macro-Elmar-R 100mm f/4 lens. Both bellows units are rock-solid and without any play. One of them (the one that came with the lens) has an issue in that someone had it apart and mis-assembled the aperture locking gizmo ... the spring is in backwards so that I have to jigger it to actually lock the aperture. But the other is perfect. Bellows and lens, in the box as new, cost me about $250: a bargain. The bellows unit alone was $60. They all look to be in minty condition. I fit the SL or the M-P typ 240 on the back of it and get very good results. It also works very well with the Summicron-R 50mm, the Summicron-R 90mm, and the Elmarit-R 135mm. I haven't tried the Elmar-R 180/4 on it yet, but I suspect that would work well too. I really like the fact that it has the geared micro-focusing rail built into it. Here it is set up with the SL and the Summicron-R 50mm to capture Minox 8x11 negatives at ~2.7:1 magnification: The results are amazingly good for such a teensy little negative: enjoy! Edited September 7, 2016 by ramarren 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share #11 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Took the time to play a bit with the adapter and mounting rings I have with my M bellows. Unfortunately the possibility to mount a M lens with the bajonet directly on the front of the M bellows is not provided as a standard adaption ring. All rings require some sort of lens head or the lenses designed for the M bellows. I do not know if Leica sols an adapter for the M mount, but it was not a standard option for sure. Yes, there is an accessory ring UOOND/16596 (not difficult to find) which fits on the Bellows II front and has a std. M female bayonet : perfect for usage with "modern" Summicrons 50 (and I used it also with the Summarit 75) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited September 7, 2016 by luigi bertolotti 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/264227-r-bellows-on-m-body-any-issue/?do=findComment&comment=3108122'>More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 7, 2016 Share #12 Posted September 7, 2016 Luigi, Buy it because it is a good combo, I have and use it with the Sony, the 100 lens is fantastic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share #13 Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Luigi, Buy it because it is a good combo, I have and use it with the Sony, the 100 lens is fantastic. I was just waiting for you... so took time until Tomorrow.... (my only concern is that obviously I am going also to take a 22228 or LEM/LER or similar... this is dangerous for a collector which till now, has not a single R lens... ) Edited September 7, 2016 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted September 8, 2016 Share #14 Posted September 8, 2016 (my only concern is that obviously I am going also to take a 22228 or LEM/LER or similar... this is dangerous for a collector which till now, has not a single R lens... ) The 60 is IMO also a bargain at the moment - later versions can be bought for very reasonable prices...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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