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Help needed in buying Dark room equipment


Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS

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Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS

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Guys

I've been looking at buying darkroom equipment from B&H but its like the blind leading the blind. My plan is to wet print both B&W and color, is the such a thing as a enlarger that can do both Black and white and color.

they also range from 5k to less than 1k, could someone help point me in the right direction for an enlarge, lens, filters and timer for printing up to 36" 

Thanks

Neil

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If you want to do colour, you need an enlarger with a dichroitic colour head (which can be retrofitted to most enlargers),  a good timer, a colour analyzer, development drums and roller, a thermostatically controlled water bath to keep your bottles of chemicals within one degree, preferably the Kodak viewing filter gels (if you can find them, long discontinued), a LOT of time and even more mental resilience.

A Jobo processing machine may save about  30 % frustration.

 

Colour  heads:   http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/2_1_produktanzeige.asp?nr=4544

 

 

And do read up on the subject, it is not as simple as B&W.

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Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS

If you want to do colour, you need an enlarger with a dichroitic colour head (which can be retrofitted to most enlargers), a good timer, a colour analyzer, development drums and roller, a thermostatically controlled water bath to keep your bottles of chemicals within one degree, preferably the Kodak viewing filter gels (if you can find them, long discontinued), a LOT of time and even more mental resilience.

A Jobo processing machine may save about 30 % frustration.

 

Colour heads: http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/2_1_produktanzeige.asp?nr=4544

 

 

And do read up on the subject, it is not as simple as B&W.

Thanks for the info Jeff. From what I'm reading and hearing wet color printing is double but a lot more complicated than B&W.

Maybe I should concentrate on B&W and see how I get on with that first. The prints that I did in the class were amazing

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I think you met Jaap, above.  But ditto from me.

 

Even if I returned to film/darkroom (won't happen after designing and building 4 b/w darkrooms over 30+ years), I would only do b/w.  For color, I would stick to an all-digital workflow, including camera.  Not just easier, but better IQ (than scanning) and more flexibility than using a darkroom....at least for me.

 

I've been in color darkrooms, but never regretted not setting one up.  I wish, though, back in the day that I had the skill, knowledge and patience for dye transfer printing, where at least the results could be phenomenally better than traditional color work.  Ctein, one of the last doing dye transfer (until recently), has an old video (Video Journal #11) on LuLa that shows his process....great stuff.  These days, for me, digital is as good as I'm going to get for color.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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I concur on forgetting the colour, the route to frustration. The only success I had was using Cibachrome where the filtration was easy, none, long gone but the results could be stunning, if expensive.

Again UK based so no help outside these territories as P&P is ridiculous. I would consider getting an enlarger that can handle 120 as that can be very satisfying to print at home.

 

On enlargers: buy well and once- Focomat IIc

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Focomat_IIc

 

On timers: expensive toy, modern phones suffice, I use a metronome, useful for dodge and burn as you can count where you are without looking away from the work, and replicate the result but that's old school.

On trays: get bigger ones for more even development, 10 x 8 in a 10 x 8 tray is not good.

On time: be prepared to use huge chunks of it.

 

I forget which photographer when asked about how he printed said he went in the darkroom with a negative, a box of paper, a gallon of Dektol and a bottle of whisky, eight hours later I come out with a print.

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Working with good equipment is very nice, but there are other things to consider.

 

Printing (B&W) is a craft. And as with most such things there is a huge volume of confusing nonsense floating around. Learn well the simple approaches, and don't get sidetracked by what is essentially hocus pocus and an endless search for an elusive magic bullet. Doesn't exist. And don't go down the rabbit hole of "If I think it is great, then it is great". Self defeating BS. There are good and bad prints, and no amount of egoistic bafflegab will change that.

 

Also. Look at good prints made by masters (not master photographers - master printers). In my experience most people don't really know what a good print looks like. Take every opportunity to find and look at really good prints, and get a sense of why they are great. The work towards the same high quality. This is likely different from why the picture is great - I have seen (and made) crappy prints of quite good images, and in that regard I am still slowly learning.

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Sir,

 

Extremely ambitious wishes.

 

In my limited experience -a long time ago-, colour was extremely difficult. Temperatures, lamp colour & filtering needed to be spot on (and usually was not). If I were you, I would at least start with black and white.

 

The mechanics. I have only limited experience: Omega, Leitz and Durst, so cannot expound on what to look for. Given that the negative lies in paralell with the easel and that you light is evenly distributed, anything might do.

 

Since you ask on the Leitz forum, you might be interested in a V35. It is heavier than the competition, but very easy to use. You have to make an effort to get spare bulbs. Do NOT use ordinary wider light-angle halogen bulbs. The colour module can be used for b&w, but the multigrade module is designed for that. (Easily exchanged). Unless cannibalized it comes with suitable optics (wa-focotar 40mm).

 

A wish for large prints calls for lenses designed for greater enlargements, so if you do not get a V35, the venerable Ctein paper on lenses might be a good guide. Recent Leica Focotars, Nikons, Schneider Componons and Rodenstock Rodagons are commonly assumed to be perfectly adequate.

 

Then, decide on what sort of print surface and colour you prefer. Yes the papers white-colours vary from blueish-cold to yellowish warm. Decide on which contrast suits your subject. Do not waste whole sheets on testing: make narrow test-strips to judge exposure and contrast.   And do make certain that you have proper facilities for washing the final prints.

 

p.

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On enlargers: buy well and once- Focomat IIc

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Focomat_IIc

If you have the opportunity to use one of the very good, early 6x9 German cameras with the Focomat IIc

you might never go back to 35mm. I modified a IIa and it is perfect. (Modified because it was missing

autofocus parts. Darn.)

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Working with good equipment is very nice, but there are other things to consider.

 

Printing (B&W) is a craft. And as with most such things there is a huge volume of confusing nonsense floating around. Learn well the simple approaches, and don't get sidetracked by what is essentially hocus pocus and an endless search for an elusive magic bullet. Doesn't exist. And don't go down the rabbit hole of "If I think it is great, then it is great". Self defeating BS. There are good and bad prints, and no amount of egoistic bafflegab will change that.

 

Also. Look at good prints made by masters (not master photographers - master printers). In my experience most people don't really know what a good print looks like. Take every opportunity to find and look at really good prints, and get a sense of why they are great. The work towards the same high quality. This is likely different from why the picture is great - I have seen (and made) crappy prints of quite good images, and in that regard I am still slowly learning.

 

A good eye and good judgment is 95% of all photography.....from the picture capture to the displayed print, and everything in-between. The technical stuff is simple by comparison.

 

Like the old story about a man who asked the surgeon why he was so expensive......."It costs a dollar to make the cut, but $20,000 to know when and where and how much to cut."

 

Jeff

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I'm using my bathroom as a darkroom. Use ventilation and a portable fan to keep the air fresh (it might be an idea to do darkroom work during autumn/winter), use microfibre cloths for gently cleaning negative and cotton gloves for handling them, make sure negatives are stored in correctly sized sleeves within a folder.

I would recommend Kaiser or LPL enlargers: make sure the one you get takes lightbulbs which are still commercially available, as most were manufactured before regulations on bulbs were tightened up (depending on what country you live in).

Have fun!

 

Colin

 

 

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I am printing B&W since 1967, RA-4 color since 1991 when it came available for amateurs. In the actual situation I would recommend to buy an enlarger type still in production because spare parts of a nice Durst (L1200) can be very expensive these days.

Kaiser, Dunco, Kienzle are in Europe the manufacturers of actual production enlargers. No idea about the USA.

 

When going to roll film you have to make a choice of the biggest format. I went to 6x7cm so my enlarger is a Dunco II 67 120 Pro. It has an exchangable modular head: CVC or Split Grade (Heiland). 100W HLX source.

 

Kaiser is going till 6x9cm and Kienzle is very professional, even going over 8x10".

 

In second hand it depends where you live. In Holland Meopta is going away for old iron prices or for nothing. Sometimes even a Magnifax 4A (6x9cm) they put away for Eur. 50,00 incl. some Meogons enlarger lenses.

 

In laboratory equipment for B&W it can be very simple. In color you will need at least a Jobo processor or a Thermaphot continuous roller machine. In a German forum a Thermaphot ACP-302 was recently offered in an almost new condition for Eur. 200,- I have a Thermaphot ACP-252.

 

Good enlarger lenses are also dirty cheap now: Schneider, Rodenstock 50mm/80mm M39 offered for resp. Eur. 25 - Eur. 50 , a fraction  what they have costed.

 

Good luck in your choices!

 

Robert

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Neil, try http://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk/

I don't know if they will send stuff to Malaysia/Thailand, but it's worth asking.

They also manufacture the RH designs timers I mentioned in the other post.

One of these days I shall have to admit the truth and get rid of my darkroom gear (not the tanks and trays as they are still used). I suspect the only item that won't be junked will be the RH Designs Analyser Pro. Wonderful piece of kit.

 

Chris

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I too went down this path, not very long ago.  It can be frustrating because there is a lot to learn, but like anything else, the investment in time will pay off if it's something you're really wanting to do.

 

The core of your printing setup will be the enlarger.  You can find them anywhere, as you've found.  I also wanted to be able to print from color negs.  I ended up with a 4x5 size Beseler enlarger with a Beseler / Minolta 45a head.  It will do both black and white and color from 35mm all the way up to 4x5..  Many folks who are used to standard heads don't care for them, because they expose paper differently and there's a bit of a learning curve.  But after working through the manual over and over again, I've started to get the hang of it.  And I've found the flexibility of the head to be astounding.  

 

It incorporates an analyzer and manages all of the timing through its controller.  You don't need to buy these items separately.  Ultimately the digital controller gives you very fine adjustment capability, will do test strips for you and once you've gotten the hang of it, you'll find you can get to a final print pretty quickly.

 

Now the downside is that if it needs repair or new flash bulbs you'll have to search for them.  I bought a few extras to have on hand and with the amount of printing I do - I'm pretty confident I'm set for years.  But that is something to consider.

 

If you're printing from 35mm you'll probably also want to get the 35mm mixing chamber which concentrates the light from the 4x5 head.

 

You'll also need to get negative holders for your preferred negative sizes.  But ultimately with a 4x5 enlarger your set for whatever size you want to print from.  For large prints you'll need to be able to swing the head to project against a wall.  So keep that in mind as well.

 

Lenses - get the best ones you can afford and have on hand the right focal length lens for the negatives you're printing from.

 

I'd suggest reading Ansel Adams - "The Print" which will go through a lot of this in detail  (I'd also recommend books 1 and 2 - "The Camera" and "The Negative")

 

It's a lot of work to learn, but I think it's worth it.  I don't wet print everything, but I really enjoy it.

 

Feel free to message me if you want to correspond in more detail on my setup.

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