Guest VVJ Posted August 31, 2016 Share #1 Posted August 31, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Competition is always good IMHO...: http://thenewcamera.com/sony-medium-format-sony-a9-and-sony-a9r/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 Hi Guest VVJ, Take a look here Sony A9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted August 31, 2016 Share #2 Posted August 31, 2016 More like competiotin for the X1D - of very little interest vs. the SL. I would say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted August 31, 2016 Share #3 Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) More like competiotin for the X1D - of very little interest vs. the SL. I would say. The article probably tries to cover too much ground or too many rumors. They are talking about a 24MP A9, a 42MP A9R and a 50MP Medium Format. The 50MP is definitely a competitor of the X1D but the 24MP looks like a competitor of the SL to me. Sony also seems to be doing what some here in these forums have already asked for, i.e.. a lower and higher resolution version of the SL. Edited August 31, 2016 by JorisV Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenjosh Posted August 31, 2016 Share #4 Posted August 31, 2016 The source is SAR, :lol: click bait Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted August 31, 2016 Share #5 Posted August 31, 2016 " if you look at the breast speed it will going to have faith frames per second upto 4000 " WTF? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted August 31, 2016 Share #6 Posted August 31, 2016 Sony doesn't know what to produce. They litter the market with version after version after version of cameras in different lines, helter skelter, with no rhyme or reason for the different products to stand together in a coordinated way. They drop products almost as fast as they bring them into production. Their lens line shows no coordination or thought. All they're after is market share, not a system of photographic equipment geared to helping a photographer make their works. I've owned several Sonys, and a couple of them were good cameras, but I'll never buy another. I'd rather they concentrated on the development of sensors. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted August 31, 2016 Share #7 Posted August 31, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sony doesn't know what to produce. They litter the market with version after version after version of cameras in different lines, helter skelter, with no rhyme or reason for the different products to stand together in a coordinated way. They drop products almost as fast as they bring them into production. Their lens line shows no coordination or thought. All they're after is market share, not a system of photographic equipment geared to helping a photographer make their works. I've owned several Sonys, and a couple of them were good cameras, but I'll never buy another. I'd rather they concentrated on the development of sensors. The Sony experience wasn't for me either... but they do push the envelope and they do have a native lens line which the Leica SL doesn't have (yet)... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted August 31, 2016 Share #8 Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) The Sony experience wasn't for me either... but they do push the envelope and they do have a native lens line which the Leica SL doesn't have (yet)... It's taken them several years to come up with an almost usable lens line, yet I hear performance, quality, and consistency problems about it over and over again. Leica has released two native FF lenses for the SL so far, and with them are covering the range from 24mm to 280mm with excellent quality. How much more does one really need? Yes, there are other niche uses that need to be covered, and more options will be great, I agree, but Sony didn't even have that in the first two years for the FF models other than by adapting the SLR lenses ... and some of them didn't work all that well either, from the reports I've read (I never owned any of the Sony SLR lenses so couldn't have first-hand experience there). Remember that the SL is not quite yet a year old...! The Leica T lenses also work beautifully on the SL, fully automated and without adapters (constrained to APS-C and 10Mpixels though). And of course, through adaptation, all the R and M lenses work beautifully on the SL, and now the S lenses do too. With the SL, Leica has introduced a fully coordinated body that makes good use of all Leica lenses for a very complete, and productive, system. Having owned and struggled with the A7 system, I can say from experience it is no comparison to the usability and quality of the Leica SL. Edited August 31, 2016 by ramarren 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted August 31, 2016 Share #9 Posted August 31, 2016 Agreed. As discussed elsewhere in this forum, I'm not sure that a 50mm f1.4 would have been the next lens, but presumably they sell more 50mm M lenses than others and so have gone for it. Judging by the greyed out macro menu entry a lens with macro capability is not far off -- hopefully 150mm, say. But some light wide angle lenses would be attractive (15-21mm) although the M lenses work very well, I must admit. Probably more sensible would be a portrait lens, to take advantage of AF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted August 31, 2016 Share #10 Posted August 31, 2016 It's taken them several years to come up with an almost usable lens line, yet I hear performance, quality, and consistency problems about it over and over again. Leica has released two native FF lenses for the SL so far, and with them are covering the range from 24mm to 280mm with excellent quality. How much more does one really need? Yes, there are other niche uses that need to be covered, and more options will be great, I agree, but Sony didn't even have that in the first two years for the FF models other than by adapting the SLR lenses ... and some of them didn't work all that well either, from the reports I've read (I never owned any of the Sony SLR lenses so couldn't have first-hand experience there). Remember that the SL is not quite yet a year old...! The Leica T lenses also work beautifully on the SL, fully automated and without adapters (constrained to APS-C and 10Mpixels though). And of course, through adaptation, all the R and M lenses work beautifully on the SL, and now the S lenses do too. With the SL, Leica has introduced a fully coordinated body that makes good use of all Leica lenses for a very complete, and productive, system. Having owned and struggled with the A7 system, I can say from experience it is no comparison to the usability and quality of the Leica SL. I am not disagreeing with anything you say but this is the point of view of somebody who already shoots Leica. If you are not shooting Leica yet you are going to look at the number of native lenses available and there are exactly two.... not exactly a confidence builder for somebody new to Leica with no roadmap from Leica available... The fact that Sony started a few years earlier already on their lens line-up is also irrelevant for a new buyer. I am sticking to what I said. The fact that Sony releases a similar camera is good for SL owners because it brings along competition and it will hopefully push Leica to get things moving a bit faster... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted September 2, 2016 Share #11 Posted September 2, 2016 What other kind of persons would you imagine participating on the Leica forum than people who already own and use Leica cameras? That's silly .. This is not a general camera enthusiast forum, it's a Leica camera forum. So 'announcing' a Sony here needs to be considered in the context of owners of Leica equipment, and the responses inevitably reflect the opinions of Leica owners. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted September 2, 2016 Share #12 Posted September 2, 2016 What other kind of persons would you imagine participating on the Leica forum than people who already own and use Leica cameras? That's silly .. This is not a general camera enthusiast forum, it's a Leica camera forum. So 'announcing' a Sony here needs to be considered in the context of owners of Leica equipment, and the responses inevitably reflect the opinions of Leica owners. You are putting words in my mouth that I never said... The only point that I was trying to make is that when/if Sony releases the A9 body they will have a full native lens line-up to support that and Leica simply doesn't... To a lot of people who want to step into a new system that matters, to a lot of Leica shooters who already have R, M, T or S glass it might not matter (although to me it certainly does)... I also believe you are underestimating the quality of the more recent Zeiss lenses and your Sony experiences (just like mine) are entirely based upon the A7 body. By the time the A9 will be released the Sony bodies will have had another 2 generations of changes and improvements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted September 2, 2016 Share #13 Posted September 2, 2016 You are putting words in my mouth that I never said... The only point that I was trying to make is that when/if Sony releases the A9 body they will have a full native lens line-up to support that and Leica simply doesn't... To a lot of people who want to step into a new system that matters, to a lot of Leica shooters who already have R, M, T or S glass it might not matter (although to me it certainly does)... I also believe you are underestimating the quality of the more recent Zeiss lenses and your Sony experiences (just like mine) are entirely based upon the A7 body. By the time the A9 will be released the Sony bodies will have had another 2 generations of changes and improvements. Good for them, if true. I don't care, I already have a full complement of lenses that perform more than satisfactorily with both SL and M cameras and out-perform (to my satisfaction) anything I've seen out of Sony. This is what I use, and would not trade for a Sony of any description. The Leica equipment works in a way that is more to my liking.. Which is why I have it, and why I'm on this forum. It's the standard against which I evaluate other cameras. What do I care about 'a lot of people who want to step into a new system'? Is that what you want to do? If so, go ahead... Godspeed to you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted September 3, 2016 Share #14 Posted September 3, 2016 What do I care about 'a lot of people who want to step into a new system'? Is that what you want to do? If so, go ahead... Godspeed to you. To me it is indeed important that the Leica SL gets a relatively wide user base. A wide user base means more native lenses and potentially 3rd party lenses as well. I have zero interest in shooting M or R glass on the SL. I am invested in the Leica S and the Leica T as well, two systems that have not been widely adopted and that quite frankly also are not going anywhere... I hope that the SL does better... Probably enough on this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted September 3, 2016 Share #15 Posted September 3, 2016 To me it is indeed important that the Leica SL gets a relatively wide user base. A wide user base means more native lenses and potentially 3rd party lenses as well. I have zero interest in shooting M or R glass on the SL. I am invested in the Leica S and the Leica T as well, two systems that have not been widely adopted and that quite frankly also are not going anywhere... I hope that the SL does better... Probably enough on this... More native lenses for the SL will come. Quality lenses take time to develop. Patience is essential. I have zero interest in 3rd party lenses... Leica lenses make Leica equipment special even though I do have a couple of Voigtländer lenses in M-mount and a couple of Nikkor F-mount lenses as well. I never used third party lenses when I was using Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Canon, Hasselblad, or Minolta brand cameras either. I don't think that either the S or T systems are 'not going anywhere'. Leica has just announced another lens for the T system, the S007 seems an excellent upgrade from the S006, etc. Rumors are strong that a T2 body is coming soon (and Photokina is right around the corner). I doubt you'll ever see broad-scale, Nikon/Canon-like (or even Sony-like) adoption of the SL, or any other Leica camera for that matter, despite that Leica would probably like that too. Leica doesn't have the production facilities to achieve that and maintain the quality standard. I wouldn't want them to drop the quality standard, and you can't offer this quality standard at significantly lower prices, either. Both of these things present a barrier to expanding the audience. The good news is that Leica seems to be making a reasonable profit on all of them and can fund their lens and body development, where most of the other manufacturers are subsidizing their camera development and production with other business units. Yes, probably enough on this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 3, 2016 Share #16 Posted September 3, 2016 To me it is indeed important that the Leica SL gets a relatively wide user base. A wide user base means more native lenses and potentially 3rd party lenses as well. I have zero interest in shooting M or R glass on the SL. I am invested in the Leica S and the Leica T as well, two systems that have not been widely adopted and that quite frankly also are not going anywhere... I hope that the SL does better... Probably enough on this... Leica systems haven't ever been "widely adopted", at least not since 1960... If you want a mass system, you need to get a mass camera. Actually, since the M240 and the advent of adapters to mount on different mounts, camera systems are more universal than ever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted September 3, 2016 Share #17 Posted September 3, 2016 What other kind of persons would you imagine participating on the Leica forum than people who already own and use Leica cameras? That's silly .. This is not a general camera enthusiast forum, it's a Leica camera forum. So 'announcing' a Sony here needs to be considered in the context of owners of Leica equipment, and the responses inevitably reflect the opinions of Leica owners. I'm not sure why you feel so strongly about this. I have Leica's, and agree with Joris that competition is good. I don't see anywhere that Joris stated you or anyone else should buy one of the new Sony's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orc999 Posted September 4, 2016 Share #18 Posted September 4, 2016 Sony might have technically better cameras feature wise. I did own some of their cameras and they all had ergonomic shortcomings. Small things that sound not like a big deal, but make daily shooting a pain. Like the little wheel they put on their cams is point and shoot quality at best, easy to accidentally turn or push. switch from EVF to backscreen is not well timed. yes you can push a button, yes you can configure this and that. Back in the days Sony Ericsson hat amazing technology in their phones...always did I prefer Nokia because they managed to get their stuff usable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted September 4, 2016 Share #19 Posted September 4, 2016 (edited) I'm not sure why you feel so strongly about this. I have Leica's, and agree with Joris that competition is good. I don't see anywhere that Joris stated you or anyone else should buy one of the new Sony's. I don't feel so strongly about it at all; honestly, I could care less what Sony makes. I had several Sonys; I found I didn't like using them much, they didn't perform as well as I'd hoped, weren't made as well as I wanted, and see neither rhyme nor reason to Sony's product line other than an intent to garner market share. What I do feel strongly about is someone dismissing my comments as being merely "the point of view of somebody who already shoots Leica"—as if that would be unexpected on a Leica equipment forum, and disregarding my years of owning and using Sony equipment. I only ever comment and offer opinions on equipment that I have used extensively and evaluated per its performance in my photography. Edited September 4, 2016 by ramarren Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted September 4, 2016 Share #20 Posted September 4, 2016 What I do feel strongly about is someone dismissing my comments as being merely "the point of view of somebody who already shoots Leica"—as if that would be unexpected on a Leica equipment forum, and disregarding my years of owning and using Sony equipment. I only ever comment and offer opinions on equipment that I have used extensively and evaluated per its performance in my photography. Again, you are putting words in my mouth that I never said, and your Sony experience mirrors mine, which I also mentioned above, so it is beyond me why you say I would have"disregarded your years of owning and using Sony equipment"... That being said, if you want to continue to feel strongly about that please go ahead... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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