wlaidlaw Posted August 28, 2016 Share #1 Posted August 28, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) To make up for my disappointment in having to cancel the purchase for one of my two dream cameras "The Texas Leica" Graflex KE-4, two weeks ago, because it turned out the film advance motor was dead and maybe shutter problems as well, I have been lucky enough to find my other dream camera just two weeks later. This is a Reid and Sigrist IIIA. I had one of these in the late 1950's and stupidly exchanged it for a Mamiya 35mm "Press" SLR, because it had built in TTL metering and at that time, aged 13, I was not very good at estimating exposure and the only meter I had was an old Zeiss extinction meter. Now my next decision is what lens. I have a 5cm Summitar but it is not very good although apparently in good condition, with no fungus, cleaning marks or separation. I suspect it is just a Friday lens plus it sits on the IIF-RD it was bought with by my father in 1953, so the two should not be separated. I have been offered a near mint collapsible Summicron and it is a post lanthanum/thorium one, so it will not go yellow. The price for this is quite reasonable at just over £300 plus whatever duty I get charged. The alternative is to wait until I can get the correct Taylor Hobson, Cooke or National Optical 2 inch f2 Anastigmat (all the same lens). However I am guessing I would have to pay at least double the price of the Summicron and at the end of the day, the Anastigmat is probably not quite as good as the Summicron, being a considerably older design, more like a Summar. Wilson 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 28, 2016 Posted August 28, 2016 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Just got a Reid and Sigrist IIIA - now Summicron or Anastigmat?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
willeica Posted August 29, 2016 Share #2 Posted August 29, 2016 I picked up a Reid IIIa earlier this year with the Taylor Hobson lens. The camera needs a CLA for the slower speeds, but the lens is a gem, even though it has a bit of a scratch on the front element. It is better than the Summitar or the Summar, although the Summar has a certain 'character' not found in any other Leica lens. The only lens that is in the same class as the Taylor Hobson is the collapsible Summicron. It would be a good match for the camera. Good luck with the Reid. It is a beautifully made camera, even better in construction quality than contemporary LTM Leicas. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted August 29, 2016 Share #3 Posted August 29, 2016 Nice find! I've passed on a couple of Kardons from the same era. I don't think they are a solid as the Reid, but also a rarity that came out of the need for quality cameras during the war. The Kardon was re-engineered to use standardized parts instead of so much hand-fitting, but I think lost some precision in the process. Like Reid, they didn't reach production until after the war, and so the government cancelled the contracts that would have made it profitable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 29, 2016 Share #4 Posted August 29, 2016 Hello Wilson, After your Reid & Sigrist IIIa is tuned up: What about a 35mm F2 ASPH Summicron-M #11619 together with a SBLOO/12010 & a 12585H? This would give you an exceptional camera with an exceptional lens, exceptional viewfinder & an exceptional lens shade. Best Regards, Michael 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share #5 Posted August 30, 2016 Hello Wilson, After your Reid & Sigrist IIIa is tuned up: What about a 35mm F2 ASPH Summicron-M #11619 together with a SBLOO/12010 & a 12585H? This would give you an exceptional camera with an exceptional lens, exceptional viewfinder & an exceptional lens shade. Best Regards, Michael Michael, Is the 11619 35 Summicron the anniversary one produced in tiny numbers in LTM as opposed to M bayonet and which now fetches huge money from collectors? I already have a 35 ASPH Summicron M but of course, that will not fit on the Reid, which is LTM. I actually do have a 35/2.5 LTM Voigtlander Skopar sitting around somewhere but it is not very good. I just got outbid on a collapsible Summicron which is annoying. You have to be very careful on these as the coating is very soft and a lot of them have horrendous cleaning scuffs, which reduces the contrast when used wide open. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted August 30, 2016 I am actually very tempted to avoid the disappointment of buying a used lens and finding that the description has been hopelessly over-optimistic, bearing in mind that these 5cm lenses were the original owners main user lens and will have seen heavy use. I would do this by buying a new 50th Anniversary Voigtlander Nickel Heliar 50/f2. This lens comes in LTM and has a nice 1950's look to it, which would match the R&S. However I will only buy one of these lenses if the RF cam to optimum focus can be checked prior to sending it across the Atlantic to me. It would be such a pain having to send it backwards and forwards for correction. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/263938-just-got-a-reid-and-sigrist-iiia-now-summicron-or-anastigmat/?do=findComment&comment=3104014'>More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 30, 2016 Share #7 Posted August 30, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Congratulations on getting the Reid, Wilson. If you are contemplating a manufacturer other than a T-H (or equiv.) then how about something completely different (as it were)? London's Peter Loy has some interesting 5cm alternatives to Leitz in LTM from Nikon. At the moment there is a 5cm f3.5 close-focus rigid-mount and a choice of three 5cm f1.4 c-f. His prices are always very reasonable and his equipment 'condition' descriptions always err on the conservative side in my experience. He also has a number of Leitz optics, of course, including a very fine-looking 5cm coated Elmar and a 3.5 cm Summaron. If I'm allowed to post a link to his website (I have no connection to the company)? https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=peter+loy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mzrFV5HsMO7v8AeO-6DYDQ Just a thought! Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted August 30, 2016 Share #8 Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) I have the nickel Heliar, and it is a beautiful and well performing lens. Even on my M9 the focus wide open has been fine. It certainly looks at home on my Leica III. Like the Elmar, the entire lens barrel rotates to focus, so reading the f-stop isn't as convenient as on a Summitar or Summicron, but the focus action is very good. Images are more modern looking, but there is a glow wide open, as the Heliar is stretched to get f2.0. It does have focus shift as it is stopped down, but it hasn't been an issue on film. The shift bothered me more on the M9, but I came to realize the mid-distance RF adjustment was a bit off on my M9 in the direction that made the shift seem worse, so I need to look at the shift issue again when my M9 comes back from adjustment. Edited August 30, 2016 by TomB_tx 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share #9 Posted August 30, 2016 Congratulations on getting the Reid, Wilson. If you are contemplating a manufacturer other than a T-H (or equiv.) then how about something completely different (as it were)? London's Peter Loy has some interesting 5cm alternatives to Leitz in LTM from Nikon. At the moment there is a 5cm f3.5 close-focus rigid-mount and a choice of three 5cm f1.4 c-f. His prices are always very reasonable and his equipment 'condition' descriptions always err on the conservative side in my experience. He also has a number of Leitz optics, of course, including a very fine-looking 5cm coated Elmar and a 3.5 cm Summaron. If I'm allowed to post a link to his website (I have no connection to the company)? https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=peter+loy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mzrFV5HsMO7v8AeO-6DYDQ Just a thought! Philip. Philip, I would certainly consider a 5cm Nikkor f1.4 or f1.5 but I am told their performance is very much optimised for close ups and I am not sure I want a lens as compromised as that. I don't need any more Elmar 50/f3.5's. I already have 3 of them, 1 nickel uncoated, 1 black subsequently coated and 1 chrome made coated but they are all already sitting on cameras. I know Peter quite well and have bought various things from him over the years. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted August 30, 2016 Share #10 Posted August 30, 2016 Ask Peter Loy about the Taylor Hobson lens. He may be able to source one for you. He had a set last year of the lens plus camera which I did not buy, but I could not resist the set which I was offered here in Dublin earlier this year. The Reid/Taylor Hobson set was part of the collection of a deceased photographer. The nearest in quality and size would be a good collapsible Summicron and if I could not get the Taylor Hobson that is what I would go for. I have the collapsible LTM Summicron and I use it on a IIIg, where it performs impeccably. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share #11 Posted August 30, 2016 The problem is that most collapsible Summicrons have horrendous cleaning scouring on the front element, to the extent that a lot of the coating is completely scraped off. I don't want a lens like that which would need a lot of expensive work. Peter Loy has nothing at the moment except a couple of Nikkor 5cm/f1.4's which I already explained I don't want. Another lens I might look at is the Canon 50mm f1.8. There is also the 1.5 and 1.2. I have dismissed the 1.2 as too specialist and low contrast. The 1.5 is an odd lens with somewhat weird bokeh and bluish rendering. I already have a lens with bluish rendering (my 5cm/f2 Summitar) and don't want another. The f1.8 gets good reviews and certainly is very good value. I can get a mint one for around $200. They look right as well with their soft looking chrome finish and infinity lock button. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 30, 2016 Share #12 Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) Hello Wilson, Yes, the 11619 is the bright chrome, screw mount model that was made as a limited edition for a while. Best Regards, Michael Edited August 30, 2016 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted August 30, 2016 Share #13 Posted August 30, 2016 The Canon 1.8 is a very good lens. The chrome version looks right at home on a Barnack. Many are in good condition, while the 1.5 tends to have issues with the cemented rear group. I use the later chrome & black 1.8 on my IIIf - a dandy lens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share #14 Posted August 30, 2016 Sadly I cannot buy the Voigtlander Nickel Heliar as Cameraquest is not permitted to sell CV lenses outside the US and he is the only agent who has the Heliar. It seems a very odd situation to me. I have asked if he will test the focus on one prior to shipping to my daughter in Baltimore. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 3, 2016 Author Share #15 Posted September 3, 2016 I have gone for a near mint Canon 5cm f1.8 Chrome model with the infinity lock and tab, which at the moment is sitting in Paris Airport, waiting to clear customs. All the Summicrons I looked at had significant cleaning scouring or damage to the coating on the front element and most some on the rear also. Now either Japanese users were much more careful about cleaning their lenses, used them less due to the cost of film in 1950's Japan relative to wages or the coating on the Canon lenses was a lot harder than Leica's contemporary coating. In all probability, it is a combination of all these factors but the cleaning marks on the various Canon lenses I was offered were far less bad than the Leica. It always amuses me when someone offers you a lens with most of the coating scrubbed off the front element and it looking like a ground glass screen then claims "does not affect image taking at all." Yes it does. These lenses are not very high contrast to begin with and a badly damaged front element with coating removal and lots of cleaning marking, will reduce the contrast and increase flare to disastrous levels. Fine if you want a soft focus lens but not otherwise. At some later point I may acquire a Taylor Hobson/Cooke/National Optical Anastigmat, just for originality but I would be prepared to bet it will not perform as well as the Canon. Wilson 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Madureira Posted September 3, 2016 Share #16 Posted September 3, 2016 Here is my Reid, with no TTH 2", I´m very unhappy. But with a Ross Extralux 13,5/4,5 and Wray (Viooh, lyre-shape copy), and a Jupiter 3, 50/1,5. Best regards. Antonio Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/263938-just-got-a-reid-and-sigrist-iiia-now-summicron-or-anastigmat/?do=findComment&comment=3106281'>More sharing options...
honcho Posted September 3, 2016 Share #17 Posted September 3, 2016 Very nice cameras, made in my hometown. I can well remember seeing Reid ii's and iii's and TTH lenses sitting on Frank Jessops, Cecil Jacob's and Mattack's 2nd hand camera shelves in their Chemist's shops. Good to see them being used. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 3, 2016 Author Share #18 Posted September 3, 2016 Here is my Reid, with no TTH 2", I´m very unhappy. But with a Ross Extralux 13,5/4,5 and Wray (Viooh, lyre-shape copy), and a Jupiter 3, 50/1,5. Best regards. Antonio Antonio, I remember my father using various Wray enlarging lenses. That Wray 13.5cm lens was supposed to be the most astigmatism corrected lens made at the time. A friend from university was seconded from CERN to work with them in the late 1960's, when they were in south east London, near Biggin Hill. I don't know when they closed down but I don't think it was long after that. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 3, 2016 Author Share #19 Posted September 3, 2016 Very nice cameras, made in my hometown. I can well remember seeing Reid ii's and iii's and TTH lenses sitting on Frank Jessops, Cecil Jacob's and Mattack's 2nd hand camera shelves in their Chemist's shops. Good to see them being used. My first Reid went for sale at Reid's (no relation) Chemists shop in Haslemere, Surrey, where I was sold the very eccentric Mamiya SLR, with its mid lens leaf shutter. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share #20 Posted September 6, 2016 Here is the Reid Model III Type 2, finally arrived courtesy of French post. It really is in very nice condition and spotlessly clean inside. I think I got a real bargain, as I paid less than I would expect to for the far more common Leica IIIC in similar condition. The slow speeds seem spot on, which given it has just had a CLA is to be expected. The only bit which is scruffy, is the wind on knob and Peter at CRR has tracked down a replacement for me, in the same soft satin chrome of the Reid, which is waiting for me back in the UK. I assume the knob comes off with a hex socket screw as peering inside the hole in the knob with an illuminated sensor loupe, does not reveal a screw slot. However I wonder if the Reid camera will use an imperial thread screw against the metric thread screw on the Leica knob. I have put a Leica Summitar 5cm/f2 on it for the moment until my Canon 5cm f1.8 arrives, which is stuck in customs at Paris Roissy Airport at the moment. At some point I will send it to Peter at CRR to have the RF mirror re-silvered, as the RF image is slightly faint at the moment. I was delighted at the job he did on the RF of my M4, which after re-silvering, is now the brightest of all my M rangefinders. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/263938-just-got-a-reid-and-sigrist-iiia-now-summicron-or-anastigmat/?do=findComment&comment=3107723'>More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.