sleyatx Posted August 27, 2016 Share #1 Posted August 27, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Between these two APO designed lenses, only the 50 Summicron has the reputation for biting sharpness above all else. Considering the similar design, is this difference very noticeable? Are there any decent published tests? 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 27, 2016 Posted August 27, 2016 Hi sleyatx, Take a look here Leica 50mm Summicron APO vs 50mm Summilux (unmarked, but also APO) - is there a drastic difference at f/2?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted August 27, 2016 Share #2 Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Between these two APO designed lenses, only the 50 Summicron has the reputation for biting sharpness above all else. Considering the similar design, is this difference very noticeable? Are there any decent published tests? 50/1.4 asph at f/2: http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3878259694_cZN3DN2-D.jpg 50/2 apo at f/2: http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3878262917_vFtxJSS-D.jpg (M240, tripod, self timer, focus on "IX" with EVF and 10x magnification, 11 MB files) 50/2 apo has less field curvature and bokeh is more round shaped but 50/1.4 asph has less vignetting at f/2. Edit: Welcome to the forum BTW Edited August 27, 2016 by lct 16 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugby Posted August 28, 2016 Share #3 Posted August 28, 2016 Considering the similar design I suggest that Leica's Peter Karbe applied a paradigm shift in designing the 50-APO, which is largely documented in Thorsten's url http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-50mm-APO-Summicron-M-ASPH-f-20.html So to suggest that both lenses have a "similar design" may be overlooking Karbe's own words. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleyatx Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share #4 Posted August 28, 2016 50/1.4 asph at f/2: http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3878259694_cZN3DN2-D.jpg 50/2 apo at f/2: http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3878262917_vFtxJSS-D.jpg (M240, tripod, self timer, focus on "IX" with EVF and 10x magnification, 11 MB files) 50/2 apo has less field curvature and bokeh is more round shaped but 50/1.4 asph has less vignetting at f/2. Edit: Welcome to the forum BTW Thank you! This was a very helpful answer! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroglyphe Posted September 1, 2016 Share #5 Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) 50/1.4 asph at f/2: http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3878259694_cZN3DN2-D.jpg 50/2 apo at f/2: http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3878262917_vFtxJSS-D.jpg (M240, tripod, self timer, focus on "IX" with EVF and 10x magnification, 11 MB files) 50/2 apo has less field curvature and bokeh is more round shaped but 50/1.4 asph has less vignetting at f/2. Edit: Welcome to the forum BTW Hi, do APO's highlights have a perfect round shape even stepped down to 2.8 or some edges (just like the Summilux when stepped down, a typical leica footprint)? Edited September 1, 2016 by Petroglyphe Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 1, 2016 Share #6 Posted September 1, 2016 Welcome to the forum Same boring view with 50/1.4 asph and 50/2 apo at f/2.8. Taken at the same time, under the same light and with the same focus settings as the f/2 pics above. (M240, tripod, self timer, focus on "IX" with EVF at 10x magnification, 11 MB files) - 50/1.4 asph: http://tinyurl.com/lekoloq - 50/2 apo: http://tinyurl.com/n6dyqd4 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroglyphe Posted September 3, 2016 Share #7 Posted September 3, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Welcome to the forum Same boring view with 50/1.4 asph and 50/2 apo at f/2.8. Taken at the same time, under the same light and with the same focus settings as the f/2 pics above. (M240, tripod, self timer, focus on "IX" with EVF at 10x magnification, 11 MB files) - 50/1.4 asph: http://tinyurl.com/lekoloq - 50/2 apo: http://tinyurl.com/n6dyqd4 Thanks for this comparison. It seems the APO does not have such 'dramatic' stars as the Summilux, maybe there are slight stars ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 3, 2016 Share #8 Posted September 3, 2016 Just a MagLite torch, nothing dramatic i'm afraid . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M10Alpine Posted March 6, 2017 Share #9 Posted March 6, 2017 I'm deciding between the Summilux and the APO and I did not find any clairvoyant answers in the above posts. However post #2 was useful in the sense that based on that and nothing else, the Lux is appealing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 6, 2017 Share #10 Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) The lux is a great lens and I generally prefer a lux to a cron if weight is not an issue. But I swear I see something special in most pictures I see taken with the APO Cron. A certain sharpness and micro contrast in the subject that seems sharp and detailed without being too clinical, and a nice out-of-focus, or bokeh if you prefer, that provides good subject separation but isn't too painterly or distracting. I don't know how to effectively describe it, but I swear I can see it. Maybe I'm just fooling myself. I don't own the APO. I'm just looking at other people's pictures. Edited March 6, 2017 by Dirk Mandeville 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted March 6, 2017 Share #11 Posted March 6, 2017 50/1.4 asph at f/2: http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3878259694_cZN3DN2-D.jpg 50/2 apo at f/2: http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3878262917_vFtxJSS-D.jpg The lux is a great lens and I generally prefer a lux to a cron if weight is not an issue. But I swear I see something special in most pictures I see taken with the APO Cron. A certain sharpness and micro contrast in the subject that seems sharp and detailed without being too clinical, and a nice out-of-focus, or bokeh if you prefer, that provides good subject separation but isn't too painterly or distracting. I don't know how to effectively describe it, but I swear I can see it. Maybe I'm just fooling myself. I don't own the APO. I'm just looking at other people's pictures. If you look at the right ear of the figure to the left in lct's images (at 100 percent), you see that the Lux has a somewhat more 'artistic'/dreamy out-of-focus rendering, whereas the APO is optically (much more) perfect. Both lenses are very nice, but it's very, very hard to beat the APO wrt size, weight, filter thread (39mm) - and optical superiority. Despite this, the Lux is - and will remain - a highly regarded lens. Flaring is certainly present with both lenses. For the APO, a fix has been suggested as described i post #12 and 17 here. With EVF, flaring can be circumvented or actively used, depending on the subject. If the optical view finder is used, it's harder to know the end result in the case of a light source located just outside of the frame. I ended up selling the Lux some time after I got the APO, simply because I tended to pick up the APO most of the time... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted March 6, 2017 Share #12 Posted March 6, 2017 Some observations: - Wide open, both lenses are superb in the central part of the frame. - Wide open, the Summilux has a much more pronounced out of focus fendering (bokeh) than the Apo Summicron. - At f2, the Summilux is at least as sharp (contrast and micro-contrast) as the Apo Summicron in the central part of the frame. - The Apo Summicron is also perfect wide open in the outer half of the frame, while the Summilux clearly suffers from around mid frame. - Stopped down, the out of focus rendering (bokeh) of the Apo Summicron is slightly more pleasing. - The Apo Summicron has slightly nicer colors than the Summilux. - In most real life situations, I prefer the Apo Summicron, but if you mainly do portraits or often do low light photography, the Summilux might be the better choice. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksinner Posted March 6, 2017 Share #13 Posted March 6, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M10Alpine Posted March 6, 2017 Share #14 Posted March 6, 2017 Thanks very helpful responses and slightly more enlightened. Now an other question what is an ok second hand price for the two respective tow lenses? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M10Alpine Posted March 6, 2017 Share #15 Posted March 6, 2017 If you look at the right ear of the figure to the left in lct's images (at 100 percent), you see that the Lux has a somewhat more 'artistic'/dreamy out-of-focus rendering, whereas the APO is optically (much more) perfect. Both lenses are very nice, but it's very, very hard to beat the APO wrt size, weight, filter thread (39mm) - and optical superiority. Despite this, the Lux is - and will remain - a highly regarded lens. Flaring is certainly present with both lenses. For the APO, a fix has been suggested as described i post #12 and 17 here. With EVF, flaring can be circumvented or actively used, depending on the subject. If the optical view finder is used, it's harder to know the end result in the case of a light source located just outside of the frame. I ended up selling the Lux some time after I got the APO, simply because I tended to pick up the APO most of the time... Would you say that with the increased ISO capabilities of the M10 or the (not ISO) MM246 the APO is on pair with low light performance compared with the Lux? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 6, 2017 Share #16 Posted March 6, 2017 Hard to compare f/2 to f/1.4 lenses. At f/1.4, the 50/1.4 asph is infinitely superior of course . At f/2 and f/2.8, main differences are visible on my snaps above. At slower apertures, it is difficult to recognize which is which to be honest. At the same apertures, OoF rendition is a bit smoother with the 50/2 apo i feel but it is a subjective matter as you know. Field curvature is also more pronounced with the 50/1.4 asph. But the 50/2 apo has more vignetting at f/2. Both great lenses anyway. I'm no pixel peeper though and i shoot only raw so take what i say with a pinch of salt. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M10Alpine Posted March 6, 2017 Share #17 Posted March 6, 2017 Hard to compare f/2 to f/1.4 lenses. At f/1.4, the 50/1.4 asph is infinitely superior of course . At f/2 and f/2.8, main differences are visible on my snaps above. At slower apertures, it is difficult to recognize which is which to be honest. At the same apertures, OoF rendition is a bit smoother with the 50/2 apo i feel but it is a subjective matter as you know. Field curvature is also more pronounced with the 50/1.4 asph. But the 50/2 apo has more vignetting at f/2. Both great lenses anyway. I'm no pixel peeper though and i shoot only raw so take what i say with a pinch of salt. Thanks a lot. Very interesting so I'm obviously in the market but undecided. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M10Alpine Posted March 6, 2017 Share #18 Posted March 6, 2017 After plenty of debate all in family root for the APO... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted March 7, 2017 Share #19 Posted March 7, 2017 What strikes me is that it can be marked APO or not, you would never know, nor see, the difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 7, 2017 Share #20 Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) MM1 and 50Apo. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 7, 2017 by BerndReini 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/263918-leica-50mm-summicron-apo-vs-50mm-summilux-unmarked-but-also-apo-is-there-a-drastic-difference-at-f2/?do=findComment&comment=3228563'>More sharing options...
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